Upper Deck loses football license

Davemri

Just heard this.... Looks like Panini is the football card manufacturer for next year.

Link

AlanAllen

Good riddance. Wasn't it just a couple of years ago they almost bought Topps?

Joe

digicat

So, a European-owned company gets exclusive licenses to produce cards for 2 major American sports (NBA, NFL)? Great.

tunahead08

I'm almost starting to feel bad for Upper Deck... almost.

italianstallionyankees

+ for Panini! Interesting to see what this change brings
As for Upper deck with all the stuff they been pulling this past couple of years with the consumers... I think they need to fail! It appears one less card company , if it cannot hold it's Hockey license.

Ryan

Reljac

I'm not particularly sad to see Upper Deck go if they do indeed go, although there is much nostalgia there for me. I have to imagine it's a blow to the attractiveness of the industry. In the end we are back to 1 true baseball set maker and cards that cost way too much per pack, not to mention the pointlessly high number of insert cards.

I would so much rather have the early 80's baseball market back, more affordable packs, fewer inserts, 3 companies to choose from that each produce one set. Watching the transgression of the card market in the early 90's Topps was the last one to give into all the inserts and the higher priced packs, it nearly cost them to fail at the time. I'm glad they survived the blight some of the other makers brought onto the card collectible market.

In my opinion, the NFL & MLB should've licensed per set as opposed to per manufacturer. They could've controlled the flooded market that has existed.

Also in my opinion, beckett publication should weed out most of the failed companies sets except in maybe a quarterly pricing or just in the almanac. Simplifying the price guide that is sold at Target & Toys'r'Us would certainly help regain buyers to the market. Currently the first 80 years of baseball take up around 4-5 pages in the price guide, while the last 20 take up 20-30 pages if not more. It's very confusing for new collectors trying to figure out what is what.

digicat

I can't wait to build the new Donruss Elite Extra Edition Status Turn of the Century Red Mirror Gold Auto set.

Morgoth

I hope they honor their redemptions!!!!!!!!

I will miss some UD products like SPA. I won't miss their super high end junk.

italianstallionyankees

Question.... How many card sets by various companies were produced in the year 2009?


Ryan

sportscardtheory

<< <i>So, a European-owned company gets exclusive licenses to produce cards for 2 major American sports (NBA, NFL)? Great. >>



I never thought of that. In this economy, taking jobs from Americans and giving business only to a European company seems kind of outrageous.

UlyssesExtravaganza

<< <i>

<< <i>So, a European-owned company gets exclusive licenses to produce cards for 2 major American sports (NBA, NFL)? Great. >>



I never thought of that. In this economy, taking jobs from Americans and giving business only to a European company seems kind of outrageous. >>



Or the norm.

mtcards

Upper Deck will soon be applying for a bailout, citing the need to keep Americans busy and not pay too much attention that goes on in certain areas of the country just south of Baltimore and such.

gumbyfan

<< <i>Upper Deck will soon be applying for a bailout, citing the need to keep Americans busy and not pay too much attention that goes on in certain areas of the country just south of Baltimore and such. >>



Well, if they can hold off until June, it looks like we'll have some money to give them.

alnavman

<< <i>I can't wait to build the new Donruss Elite Extra Edition Status Turn of the Century Red Mirror Gold Auto set. >>



I heard they were inserting short print non autographed cards in the set to spur interest.....

digicat

<< <i><< I can't wait to build the new Donruss Elite Extra Edition Status Turn of the Century Red Mirror Gold Auto set. >>

I heard they were inserting short print non autographed cards in the set to spur interest..... >>




As much as I hate sticker autos, I'd take the #/999 sticker auto rookie card of some prospect over the #/10 non-autoed version of the same card.


Of course, if I was a TRUE collector, I'd get both.

ken61

I can't imagine Upper Deck could survive without either a football or baseball license.

I have mixed emotions about this. Upper Deck has made some really nice cards over the years. But there has always been something a bit shady about the company.

otwcards

<< <i>

<< <i>So, a European-owned company gets exclusive licenses to produce cards for 2 major American sports (NBA, NFL)? Great. >>



I never thought of that. In this economy, taking jobs from Americans and giving business only to a European company seems kind of outrageous. >>



Keep in mind that Panini contracted their last batch of cards and they were manufactured in the US. I'm expecting the same for basketball and football for their next issues.

Also, UD did a ton of the Topps stuff at their Carlsbad location. Having toured it twice (last time in 2000), there was a ton of Chrome sheets stacked on pallets in their warehouse. I wouldn't be surprised if they continue to contract work for both Topps and Panini even after losing the licenses...

ripkenintheminors

UD has done some solid things for the hobby while at the same time doing some pretty sorry things to their consumers. With that being said I can't say that I am surprised to see UD lose another license.

vladguerrero

UD dug their own grave, PERIOD. So they lose Baseball, football, and basketball, and now will share hockey... lmao.

handyman

on with the old

Xtrainningscards

I think it will open the door for Topps to get back in the game, and they should be.

italianstallionyankees

<< <i>I think it will open the door for Topps to get back in the game, and they should be. >>




I agree! Now the question will the upper deck products of pre 2009 sustain value in the next 2-3 years.. if they indeed go out of business... Or will the 2010 products of baseball go up in value?? This is something I have been thinking about .. I have not purchased any product from Ud and barely any topps 2010 only 2 racks from Wally World. I am not speculating just simply asking others opinions on this topic?

Ryan

digicat

<< <i>Now the question will the upper deck products of pre 2009 sustain value in the next 2-3 years >>



Why would UD's current problems have any effect on the value of their older cards?

The only way I can see older UD cards crashing is if they start reprinting older products and flooding the market with them.

VikaSoy

<< <i>

<< <i>Now the question will the upper deck products of pre 2009 sustain value in the next 2-3 years >>



Why would UD's current problems have any effect on the value of their older cards?

The only way I can see older UD cards crashing is if they start reprinting older products and flooding the market with them. >>



With there past activities that have come to light. It is probably already happening.

Garabaldi

The less card companies in the game the better

MeteoriteGuy

The lose of Upper Deck is a major blow to this hobby. The many collectors applauding it are being very short sighted.

thehallmark

<< <i>The lose of Upper Deck is a major blow to this hobby. The many collectors applauding it are being very short sighted. >>



How so?

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>

<< <i>The lose of Upper Deck is a major blow to this hobby. The many collectors applauding it are being very short sighted. >>



How so? >>



Are you asking how is the loss of what was the most popular and biggest trading card company not good for the hobby?

I don't buy new baseball or hockey cards, but I understand the need for them in this hobby. Especially in its current state which is what, 10% (?) it was 10-12 years ago?

The dollars spent on Upper Deck cards in 2009, will not all come back to the hobby in 2010 on other boxes. It didn't in the past when we went from 50-60 brands to 12 (or whatever) and it won't now. This will not be the final coffin nail but this will mark a major change in our hobby. No collectible hobby is ever helped by the drop of products in store shelfs.

Panini cards look like Upper Deck cards, look like Topps cards, ect al. It's almost like new cars. You can't tell the brand by its design anymore, so who cares who makes them? Panini did a great job this year no question......but the dollars spent on SP boxes is just now gone.

Reljac

I'd tend to think that is reckless use of causality. Did many dollars leave the hobby industry in the 1990's due to the bankrupcy of a large number of companies?
Or did many dollars leaving the industry result in the bankrupcy of a large number of companies. The latter seems more plausible.

In likelihood, it was a little of both. Supply exceeded demand resulting in product that could not be sold and losses to be incurred. In addition Demand was already decreasing as the avid collectors whom were drawn in to the baseball card collectible market in the mid to late 1980's grew older. The 1994-1995 baseball strike likely had the biggest impact on the companies that were barely hanging on. An event like that would've caused a significant drop in the demand during the strike and a slow return to pre-strike demand levels.


My brother, my Dad, and collected cards avidly together during this period of the mid 1980s to early 1990's stopping in 1994. I can certainly say, that growing older (high school & college), loss of interest in baseball due to the strike and other issues caused us all to give up on cards for more than a decade. Now we all collect again. It had little to do with the number of companies or sets.

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>I'd tend to think that is reckless use of causality. Did many dollars leave the hobby industry in the 1990's due to the bankrupcy of a large number of companies?
Or did many dollars leaving the industry result in the bankrupcy of a large number of companies. The latter seems more plausible.

In likelihood, it was a little of both. Supply exceeded demand resulting in product that could not be sold and losses to be incurred. In addition Demand was already decreasing as the avid collectors whom were drawn in to the baseball card collectible market in the mid to late 1980's grew older. The 1994-1995 baseball strike likely had the biggest impact on the companies that were barely hanging on. An event like that would've caused a significant drop in the demand during the strike and a slow return to pre-strike demand levels.


My brother, my Dad, and collected cards avidly together during this period of the mid 1980s to early 1990's stopping in 1994. I can certainly say, that growing older (high school & college), loss of interest in baseball due to the strike and other issues caused us all to give up on cards for more than a decade. Now we all collect again. It had little to do with the number of companies or sets. >>



I agree completely, most of us grew up, went on to other things or the like. However, look at this hobby from the dollar point. The dollars spent on SP and other popular products will likely not come back, that is not what happens when you kill a brand name. I did buy Topps Chrome football. I did buy SP football. However, I will not be buying A&G because it is the only thing available. These are popular brands, they sold well for dealers and collectors on eBay and the like. Compare how many key RCs from the 20 years are in UD products to the other brands. There is reason companies continue card brand names.

Upper Deck did do itself in to some degree, but most of it was unavoidable. It does not appear to me that MLB, NFL and NBA are looking out for collectors but limited licenses. We are not their interest, this would have likely happened anyway.

Let's face it...the NFL is the most popular sport, NBA and college basketball could strongly argue that they beat MLB. The future of sport cards should lean more away from from baseball as the years go by. The new sale box football market was almost killed this year....can't possibly see this as being good.

Clear Skies,
Mark

kingnascar

I say what goes around comes around. Those jerks at Upper Deck are getting what they deserve. My son has bought a lot of high end UD football product over the years and the majority of the time he would get autographs of players that did not get drafted or did not make the team roster. UD just filled the product with crap. On the rare occasion that he would pull something good, it would be a redemption. As most of you know, you wait forever to hopefully get the card only to get a run of the mill substitution for the really good card you should have received in the first place. We quit buying UD products years ago because of their bad business practices. You can only screw with people for so long until it finally comes back to bite you. Wal-Mart should learn from this.
Buh-bye UD!
Logan

Garabaldi

I think the inserts really hurt card collecting. The packs became too expensive, collecting became too difficult and then the cards decreased in value too rapidly. The were mass produced and it did a disservice to collectors.

Boopotts

<< <i>I think the inserts really hurt card collecting. The packs became too expensive, collecting became too difficult and then the cards decreased in value too rapidly. The were mass produced and it did a disservice to collectors. >>



What everyone needs to remember is that inserts, chase cards, multiple sets each year from each company, etc., are all measures that card companies took to avoid a repeat of the total disaster that was 1986-1993. Anyone who thinks that these measures ruined the hobby only has to ask themselves this- would you rather be given a random wax box from 1989 or 1999?

There's a basic inconsistency in the way that collectors view the decline of the industry. One one hand, everyone agrees that overproduction was a nightmare. On the other hand, however, many of those same people also argue that the direction the hobby took from, say, 1995 onward was also a disaster. Well,which is it? Because the one thing you aren't going to get is one set produced every year, and that set being produced in limited quantity. 'X' number of cards are going to be printed, and that's that, because there's enough demand to satisfy 'X' number of cards. The only question is whether you want 500,000 identical RC's of a given player, or fifty different RC's that all have a print run of 10,000 (this is obviously a simplification, but you get my point).

Garabaldi

What was wrong wih the way the hobby used to be? How about not have the mass production and not having as many inserts. I know this is not the way for the companies to make as much money, but this seems more logical for the hobby. The product is just saturated with too many inserts, that in due time just fall off price wise. In a perfect world this would work, but I understand the card companies have to make money.

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>What was wrong wih the way the hobby used to be? How about not have the mass production and not having as many inserts. I know this is not the way for the companies to make as much money, but this seems more logical for the hobby. The product is just saturated with too many inserts, that in due time just fall off price wise. In a perfect world this would work, but I understand the card companies have to make money. >>




Print runs are lower now then ever, not sure how making them lower (and raising pack price to make up the difference) would help.

Removing inserts (or more so, higher end modern inserts, as inserts have been around since the 50s) would leave us boxes like Collector's Choice and Topps Total....which no one wants. I do not understand why anyone, and several do, think that if they put less in the product...people will want it more. I am pretty sure, people would just skip your boxes without autos, GU and 1/1's and buy a box that might get a "hit."

Clear Skies,
Mark

sportscardtheory

Can anyone dispute the year that had the most companies producing cards was a better year for the hobby than the hobby in it's current state. The hobby is shrinking with less and less card manufacturers. Prove me wrong.

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>Can anyone dispute the year that had the most companies producing cards was a better year for the hobby than the hobby in it's current state. The hobby is shrinking with less and less card manufacturers. Prove me wrong. >>



I don't imagine anyone has real numbers for now and whenever then is, so no. Can't dispute, can't prove, can barely tell what you are saying.

sportscardtheory

<< <i>

<< <i>Can anyone dispute the year that had the most companies producing cards was a better year for the hobby than the hobby in it's current state. The hobby is shrinking with less and less card manufacturers. Prove me wrong. >>



I don't imagine anyone has real numbers for now and whenever then is, so no. Can't dispute, can't prove, can barely tell what you are saying. >>



The hobby was in a better place when we had numerous companies producing licensed cards. That's my point. There was more money being spent in the hobby and there were more overall collectors in general. I'm disputing how some people are saying that less companies or 1 company is better for the hobby. I don't believe it is. I think it is hurting the hobby more than anything. The hobby was thriving when we had many card producers, now it's dying out slowly with less and less companies producing licensed cards (not by their own choice).

ElToroLoco

As one of the above posters said, a lot of collectors in the 90's simply grew up and are now getting back into the hobby. However, IMO, the other things kids spend money on are the biggest reasons. Look at what's available to kids now.....video game systems....affordable and replayable.....the iPod.....here goes some income on downloads........cellular phones.....more downloads.....Magic The Gathering, Pokemon....kids still play the sport but have other interests other than baseballs cards....heck...kids are interested in sex at a younger age now too!

Getting back to the OT, it's tough to see Upper Deck go....SP Authentic has been a premiere line, SPx was the first with serial numbered on-card autos.....Ultimate Collection brought us expensive packs and expensive cards....Exquisite is out of this world.....it's my belief that the company is being punished....they'll be back...

otwcards

I find it interesting that some blame the decline of the hobby on there being fewer card companies producing fewer products. Can't anyone see the direct relationship to the declining amount of newer product being purchased to the decline of the card companies? With lesser demand comes lesser revenue and lesser profit and eventually the inability to remain profitable and pay the outrageous licensing fees.

The card companies share equal guilt here, but the decline of the hobby with respect to new material purchases has led to these companies going belly up, not the other way around.

There is still significant money in the hobby, but much of it is in older material. A vintage market that is still viable, but a market that the current companies can't tap for revenue streams.

I heard it in the early 1980's when Fleer and Donruss came on the scene, "Too many companies will kill the hobby." Then I heard it in '89 when UD came out, "Premium $1.00 per pack products will never sell." Then in '9 when Stadium Club came out, there were the same nay-sayers and they scoffed at me when I was buying '92 Bowman at below cost in the fall of '92. The refractors in the '93 Finest product were the next hobby killer. Add game used and autographed inserts then numbered rookie cards and even more hobbyists complained and dealers sounded the death knell again and again.

So which is it? What is the cause of the decline? Is it the economy? Is it greed? Is it grading? Is it just a cycle?

For collectors, there are still plenty of options. There are still some great values. But the key is to collect what you like . . . what you will still appreciate years from now whether it appreciates or not.

MeteoriteGuy

"I find it interesting that some blame the decline of the hobby on there being fewer card companies producing fewer products."

Just a follow up, that is not what I was trying to say. More so that the most popular sport, just lost most of its most popular trading card brands (with Topps and UD). This is NOT because of failed interest. Some of you may not have liked Topps Chrome, but a lot of us did and it seemed to sell well from what I could see.

That is where I am getting with the money will leave. Again, everything I liked in modern cards, except National Treasures, just left and I like NT, but I can buy the singles of my players cheaper then the packs. I am not spending going to spend what I would have on Topps Chrome and SP on whatever new Donruss/Playoff card that isn't made by either company really, that all kind of look like Leaf Rookies & Stars cards.

I hope you baseball collectors double all your orders next year.

Edit: Dont drink and type.

Garabaldi

I just think the market was flooded with too many inserts, but the main problem is that the prices fell. All these inserts came out and then over time the prices went down. Too many people got burned and I think they stopped collecting. When PSA first came out and the high grades were bringing alot and then the pop got bigger and the card prices went down. I am not a dummie and I understand supply and demand, but I just think collectors got turned off. The days of collecting cards/sets for a small price and then seeing the cards go up in value does not happen as much. RC's come out at such a high price they do not have a big margin for escalating like they used to. Hey, I could be completely wrong, but that is the way that I see it.