Are any dealers negatively impacted (financially) when a new system, like Plusses or CAC, comes into
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I was taking a look at the blog of a learned dealer in Southern gold. In it, he writes the following:
"One thing I am a little baffled about is what are we to make of the millions and millions of coins already graded by PCGS? Obviously, the nicest coins are going to be placed into the new Secure Plus holders. But what about the 1% or 2% of the coins that are outright mistakes? What about the coins that people, for whatever reason, decide not to resubmit/regrade? This is going to create a number of secondary markets and it will be certain to cause confusion."
Initially I scoffed at the notion that people would not want to resubmit all of their coins for possible Plussing. But then I read between the lines of the quote above and really started to fear for the value of dealers' inventories. If a dealer is sitting on a bunch of PCGS coins that are not in the Secure Plus holders, and even more horribly, are not Plussed, does that have a negative financial impact on that inventory? The quote above makes reference to a number of secondary markets for coins that are not Plussed, and the confusion it creates. That can only mean lesser values, or questionable values of coins that a dealer holds.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
"One thing I am a little baffled about is what are we to make of the millions and millions of coins already graded by PCGS? Obviously, the nicest coins are going to be placed into the new Secure Plus holders. But what about the 1% or 2% of the coins that are outright mistakes? What about the coins that people, for whatever reason, decide not to resubmit/regrade? This is going to create a number of secondary markets and it will be certain to cause confusion."
Initially I scoffed at the notion that people would not want to resubmit all of their coins for possible Plussing. But then I read between the lines of the quote above and really started to fear for the value of dealers' inventories. If a dealer is sitting on a bunch of PCGS coins that are not in the Secure Plus holders, and even more horribly, are not Plussed, does that have a negative financial impact on that inventory? The quote above makes reference to a number of secondary markets for coins that are not Plussed, and the confusion it creates. That can only mean lesser values, or questionable values of coins that a dealer holds.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
An experienced and capable coin dealer, will be able to spot
coins that are superior for the grade.
Now, as for PCGS being really strict on grading + coins, so be it.
Now, as for the 6 coins I have in for the + grade, If I do not get
the + grade, then I intend to hold my breath until I bust.However,
other the bust, I shall utter, nary a disparaging word.
Camelot
I won't be surprised to see the price of non-"+" coins drop, possibly significantly. This may express itself as a decline in liquidity of such coins rather than a pricing guide change.
I wonder how many dealers are now trying to unload all the coins they know won't get a "+"?
Then there is the issue of dealer buying prices ... what are they willing to pay for "+" coins. Will they even want to handle coins that don't have a plus without a significant discount?
Since I am relatively new to the coin world, the one problem I see is the different price guides. Yes the Red Book is retail, the grey sheet is Dealer, PCGS, NGC have price guides for thier coins, but they graded them.
Really would should have one price guide that averages NGC, PCGS sales data and that is the price. If you believe PCGS is a better grading company you pay a little more for the coin, and then the opposite also holds true.
I am ranting but, to me in my mind I know how much I am willing to pay for a particular coin, in the condition and grade I want. If it is more than that I keep looking.
Gary
<< <i>Will "+" coins now be the effective standard for the grade and represent the true price for the grade?
I won't be surprised to see the price of non-"+" coins drop, possibly significantly. This may express itself as a decline in liquidity of such coins rather than a pricing guide change.
I wonder how many dealers are now trying to unload all the coins they know won't get a "+"?
Then there is the issue of dealer buying prices ... what are they willing to pay for "+" coins. Will they even want to handle coins that don't have a plus without a significant discount? >>
This could be a + for the buyer's in the market. The + designation will not make or break a sale for me, as the CAC bean does or does not. The bean and the "+" are subjective and there are MANY coins out there that are not beaned that should be, IMHO, and vice-versa. Same goes it with the +.
<< <i>I was taking a look at the blog of a learned dealer in Southern gold. In it, he writes the following:
"One thing I am a little baffled about is what are we to make of the millions and millions of coins already graded by PCGS? Obviously, the nicest coins are going to be placed into the new Secure Plus holders. But what about the 1% or 2% of the coins that are outright mistakes? What about the coins that people, for whatever reason, decide not to resubmit/regrade? This is going to create a number of secondary markets and it will be certain to cause confusion."
Initially I scoffed at the notion that people would not want to resubmit all of their coins for possible Plussing. But then I read between the lines of the quote above and really started to fear for the value of dealers' inventories. If a dealer is sitting on a bunch of PCGS coins that are not in the Secure Plus holders, and even more horribly, are not Plussed, does that have a negative financial impact on that inventory? The quote above makes reference to a number of secondary markets for coins that are not Plussed, and the confusion it creates. That can only mean lesser values, or questionable values of coins that a dealer holds.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? >>
Yep. The state of confusion already exists, and cannot realistically get any worse. There are dozens of different kinds of top-tier TPG holders in the marketplace, and people are constantly noting that particular coins are in certain holders (e.g., OGH) rather than in current-generation ones. Regarding dealers who may not be able to get their 'PQ' coins into PCGS + holders: cry me a river. None of what is currently going on will enable collectors to consistently buy nice coins without having to learn to independently grade what they collect.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
The use of impact as a verb meaning "to have an effect" often has a big impact on readers. In our 2001 survey, 85 percent of the Usage Panel disapproved of the construction to impact on, as in the sentence These policies are impacting on our ability to achieve success; fully 80 percent disapproved of the use of impact as a transitive verb in the sentence The court ruling will impact the education of minority students. · It is unclear why this usage provokes such a strong response, but it cannot be because of novelty. Impact has been used as a verb since 1601, when it meant "to fix or pack in," and its modern, figurative use dates from 1935. It may be that its frequent appearance in the jargon-riddled remarks of politicians, military officials, and financial analysts continues to make people suspicious. Nevertheless, the verbal use of impact has become so common in the working language of corporations and institutions that many speakers have begun to regard it as standard. It seems likely, then, that the verb will eventually become as unobjectionable as contact is now, since it will no longer betray any particular pretentiousness on the part of those who use it.
With the plus point system being used, why not just label each coin as actually graded? I.E. "MS 64.7" as opposed to "MS 64+"? That might level out the values.
<< <i>I consider myself an average collector. I have some nice coins, but I am on a budget and it is relative to what I can afford to buy and to take the occassional hit on resale if the market drops or I just plain made a mistake. My concern is the possibility of a growing perception with collectors that will consider coins not designated with a "+" as being inferior in some way. Yes, the information has been made known that eye appeal and the technical grade itself does not mean the coin is not a quality coin. Still, I can see where the perception could become reality for dealers and collectors that resell at times (like me) and negatively effect coin values.
With the plus point system being used, why not just label each coin as actually graded? I.E. "MS 64.7" as opposed to "MS 64+"? That might level out the values. >>
PCGS tried that internally---it didn't work because there wasn't enough consistency in decimal grading. Hence the + as a fallback.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
As an alternative , I began applying these stickers to my 2x2 cardboard holdered coins and pricing them at the next grade up.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
If you are not certain that you are getting good value for your money, by comparing coin after coin after coin regardless of what it says on the slab, then you have no business buying coins or being in the business.
<< <i>This is all BS.
If you are not certain that you are getting good value for your money, by comparing coin after coin after coin regardless of what it says on the slab, then you have no business buying coins or being in the business. >>
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>This is all BS.
If you are not certain that you are getting good value for your money, by comparing coin after coin after coin regardless of what it says on the slab, then you have no business buying coins or being in the business. >>
+1
Search any collector coin on Heritage Auction Archives, and you will see a range of prices for sales of that coin. This only works on coins that trade fairly often....but you can bet the highest prices are for the best coins in that grade. The lowest prices...are for the ones which have the grade, but dont scream out at you.
Buyers who see the coin in hand, in an auction situation, have a way of establishing a price. They will bid that + price for a top coin, with or without the + or Star or Bean or BNB sticker.
roadrunner
and do not need no stinkeeng slabs to tell them what grade their coins are. However,
in the real world,top graders are born and not so much made. The average collector
can grade so/so but really relies on third party graders to protect the from buying over
priced over graded coins.In the real world, we frequently have to pay over sheet price
for really, really top of the line coins. It is nice to have someone now tell us dummies
if a coin is really top of the line PQ so it is worth the money. This is a service by PCGS,
If you don't want it, then do not use the service. If your grading is infallible, more power to
you.
For any company to grow, it must continue to expand its product or service line to meet the
needs of its clients. Protection Plus is such an example. There will be more services coming down
the line in due time. It is not the end of the world as we know it. Life will continue and coin
collecting will continue and all will be well.
Camelot
<< <i>This is all BS.
If you are not certain that you are getting good value for your money, by comparing coin after coin after coin regardless of what it says on the slab, then you have no business buying coins or being in the business. >>
Now this is all BS.
Some people don't have the time or the inclination to compare coin after coin until they develop enough skill at grading that they are comfortable spending a lot of money on a coin without the second opinion that a top tier slab provides...or the third opinion that a CAC sticker provides...or even the fourth opinion that a PCGS + designation provides.
And guess what? It's their money...their coins...and their business.