bogus sets in the registry
MalibuViking
Posts: 15
I recently noticed one of the owners of a set in the registry was going onto eBay and transcribing PSA cert. numbers from the photos on the cards for sale into his set. I know this because he added a card that has a population of 1. I emailed the owner and he did not reply and immediately changed his set so that it could not be viewed. When the cards sell and the new owners register their new cards, obviously they are removed from his set. But not every card gets registered. You can build yourself a pretty good fake set this way.
Is there any way to police this? I'd like to get this, and any other fake sets, removed from the registry. Any advice?
Is there any way to police this? I'd like to get this, and any other fake sets, removed from the registry. Any advice?
0
Comments
<< <i>I recently noticed one of the owners of a set in the registry was going onto eBay and transcribing PSA cert. numbers from the photos on the cards for sale into his set. I know this because he added a card that has a population of 1. I emailed the owner and he did not reply and immediately changed his set so that it could not be viewed. When the cards sell and the new owners register their new cards, obviously they are removed from his set. But not every card gets registered. You can build yourself a pretty good fake set this way.
Is there any way to police this? I'd like to get this, and any other fake sets, removed from the registry. Any advice? >>
you can probably report this to PSA and they can check his certs.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>Check his certs and do what? If nobody else has the card registered, what keeps a fraud from registering it? And if the fraud has it registered, how is PSA to know it is a fraud? I think the OP is talking about good certs being taken off of ebay and being registered before a new buyer has a chance to put them into their sets. >>
They can ask him to send front and back scans. That alone should bust him, since nobody posts back scans on their auctions. It may not accomplish anything, and they may not give a rip when he calls, but it's a cheap effort if it bothers him.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
Here are the details. A few days ago the set in question was available to be viewed. I saw the new card which had a population of 1. However I recognized it as a card that was on eBay with the auction ending that day. As I said earlier, I tried to contact him and with my email he changed his set to be unable to be viewed. So as of this moment, we are unable to see the contents of the set.
When I click the link that is his set rating, I can see that a number of times he loses cards soon after adding them. Common sense would tell me that this is just the new owners claiming their cards. Obviously I can't prove this but I have pretty compelling evidence that this is what this person is doing. With his set now being unable to be viewed, I won't be able to give specific examples to whomever I speak to. I'm not sure what the best way to approach this is, but I do want to bust this guy.
<< <i>I just don't get the point. You have what you have. Why bogus it up? To get a piece of paper? To get a little blue thing that says "2010"? Good grief. >>
NO GENIUS....... free grades for being >80% complete
<< <i>year. sport, company? >>
ot, i like your sig line!!
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>Thanks for your sarcasm. Much appreciated. >>
Sarcasm aside, he may be right. Free subs may be worth the effort to him. Unless that's it, I can't see any reason unless:
1. he's making counterfeits, or
2. he's incredibly optimistic and putting cards in his set before he even wins them, then drops them when he loses.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
I don't think his motivation was to get free submissions, since the set was 99% complete.
I noticed that the set in question from time to time, disappears from the registry only to reappear at a later date. I don't know if he has been caught before, but I wish they would ban this guy permanently.
For those who are curious, it was 1976 Topps Baseball.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>Malibu Viking, would you mind turning on your pm's? I've got a non card (samo?) question. >>
PMs are now enabled
Why would a set disappear and reappear in the registry several times in a year?
And now that I suspect this guy of cheating, how can I bust him now that his set can't be viewed any more?
I also remember a couple of guys doing it for the free completion grades from PSA, or to request a new set for the set registry.
And I also remember after I deleted all of my sets and started selling them off, I got several buyers that told me the cards were registered to someone else's set when they tried to add them. It was never a problem to get them removed and registered to the new owner, but I remember thinking it was a pretty pathetic move on the scammers part.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
The Pristine Card Collection-1976
<< <i>I am guessing that it is this set?
The Pristine Card Collection-1976 >>
That is the one.
<< <i>Why does anyone care? He either has it, or he does not. Either way, I sleep well. >>
If no one cared, why have a set registry at all?
<< <i>Who cares, and why is it impossible to not have the cards in the set listed. There's 660 cards in the set and it's tied with the #1 set. That's a lot of certs to have "stolen" without causing lots of issues with other collector's sets. The #1 set has only 25 unique PSA 10's that nobody else can have. The #1 set has 435 PSA 10's where there are 2 or more, so the #2 set will also have a lot of them. The #2 guy won't have the same 435, so the other PSA 10's will come from a list of 116 PSA 9's listed in the #1 set where there is at least 1 PSA 10 card out there. And again, all those PSA 10's in #2's set can't conflict with anyone elses. It would be hard to believe that the set doesn't exist. >>
Not everybody has to care, but a lot of us do. If you don't, move on to another topic or message board.
Now, I know this person is cheating because I busted him. Before he locked off his set so that it couldn't be viewed, I saw a recently added PSA 10 with a population of 1 that was still for sale on eBay. And there is a lot of evidence that he has done this frequently. He set disappears from the registry and then reappears. And in his history, the set drops in rating quite a bit. Who has a set that is 99% complete and then loses cards? Now I'm sure someone can concoct some explain why that stuff might happen but it is unlikely considering I saw him do it once. I don't know if he has most of the set and just cheats by adding the last few, or if half or more of his set is bogus. But a cheater is still a cheater. And I bet I speak for almost everyone when I say it is a hassle to enter a card into the registry, only to find someone else has it registered. I really don't want to have to bother scanning the two sides, sending the email, and then waiting.
Let's get together and eliminate the cheater(s).
So then how many times has this individual's imaginary set caused you or somebody else with a set on the 1976 registry to have to go through that process. You do have a set registered don't you. The set is tied with the #1 set so I find it hard to believe that he assembled about 460 PSA 10 cert numbers that aren't in conflict with cards in anybody elses set. If you're looking to get together to with somebody to stop this guy you might want to check with the other 1976 registrants to see if anyone else is having an issue.
It could be possible this person is doing the same thing I did on the 76T registry. It sounds more plausible since it appears they are in heavy competition with the person who is currently #1 for the set. This would also explain why the set disappeared completely then appeared again. I have no idea about 76T set and if this guy is truly grabbing certs as you mentioned. If he is doing it then they need to be stopped because a cheater is a cheater is a cheater no matter how you look at it.
Maybe PSA should automatically add certs from sub orders to seller's inventory and then the seller can remove them after the card is paid for?
<< <i>PSA has graded a total of 3194 PSA 10's in the 1976 set. There are 576 different PSA 10's with 94 of those at 1 pop. The #1 set has 460 PSA 10's in the set with 25 of those being 1 pop. So that leaves 551 different PSA 10's that are possible for other people's sets. Not including the approximate 460 PSA 10's that must be in the #2 set, all the other PSA 10's in the other registered 1976 sets total just over 1150. This means that the #2's 460 unique cards must have come from the 2044 other 10's that have been graded in which there are only 551 different. How would a bogus set registrant have access to 460 numbers out of 551 different from a pool of 2044. And remember, 69 of the 551 different are pop 1's, so how in the world is he coming up with all those certs? >>
What is so difficult to understand? I caught him cheating. He entered a card into his set that he didn't own. If you want to argue that the majority of his cards are legit, fine. You're probably right. But I know that at least one wasn't. And based on the rest of the evidence I cited earlier, I don't think that was the only card. All the statistics you posted are true. But in a way, it is irrelevant. I'm guessing that he does own the majority of the cards, but when he sees on eBay a PSA 10 he doesn't have he enters it into his set. When it sells, if the new owner enters it he loses it. That would explain why the set drops from time to time. But I'm sure there are a lot of collectors who don't use the set registry. Even I haven't registered every card I own. If the buyer of the card doesn't submit the number to PSA, it remains in his set. I can't prove that, it is just speculation. But I did catch this guy doing it once. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
<< <i>
<< <i>PSA has graded a total of 3194 PSA 10's in the 1976 set. There are 576 different PSA 10's with 94 of those at 1 pop. The #1 set has 460 PSA 10's in the set with 25 of those being 1 pop. So that leaves 551 different PSA 10's that are possible for other people's sets. Not including the approximate 460 PSA 10's that must be in the #2 set, all the other PSA 10's in the other registered 1976 sets total just over 1150. This means that the #2's 460 unique cards must have come from the 2044 other 10's that have been graded in which there are only 551 different. How would a bogus set registrant have access to 460 numbers out of 551 different from a pool of 2044. And remember, 69 of the 551 different are pop 1's, so how in the world is he coming up with all those certs? >>
I caught him cheating. He entered a card into his set that he didn't own. If you want to aruge that the majority of his cards are legit, fine. You're probably right. But I know that at least one wasn't. And based on the rest of the evidence I cited earlier, I don't think that was the only card. All the statistics you posted are true. But in a way, it is irrelevant. I'm guessing that he does own the majority of the cards, but when he sees on eBay a PSA 10 he doesn't have he enters it into his set. When it sells, if the new owner enters it he loses it. That would explain why the set drops from time to time. But I'm sure there are a lot of collectors who don't use the set registry. Even I haven't registered every card I own. If the buyer of the card doesn't submit the number to PSA, it remains in his set. I can't prove that, it is just speculation. But I did catch this guy doing it once. Where there's smoke, there's fire. >>
I would like to see PSA ask this guy to produce scans of all his cards in the set
To prove your apathy, you decided to post on this thread. Classy move Mark, this is but par for the course for you; either a smarky reply or a copy and paste of some 3000+ word article.
Keep the good work coming
<< <i>Why does anyone care? He either has it, or he does not. Either way, I sleep well.
To prove your apathy, you decided to post on this thread. Classy move Mark, this is but par for the course for you; either a smarky reply or a copy and paste of some 3000+ word article.
Keep the good work coming >>
I must have offended you in some other life. I do not think I have met you in this one. Please send me a list of posting rules that offend you so I can refer to them as I type. I really do not want to dislike you as:
1. You are a Dale Murphy fan; and
2. I do not know who you are.
I have a solution- I will ignore you. Nevermind about the posting rules.
<< <i>
<< <i>PSA has graded a total of 3194 PSA 10's in the 1976 set. There are 576 different PSA 10's with 94 of those at 1 pop. The #1 set has 460 PSA 10's in the set with 25 of those being 1 pop. So that leaves 551 different PSA 10's that are possible for other people's sets. Not including the approximate 460 PSA 10's that must be in the #2 set, all the other PSA 10's in the other registered 1976 sets total just over 1150. This means that the #2's 460 unique cards must have come from the 2044 other 10's that have been graded in which there are only 551 different. How would a bogus set registrant have access to 460 numbers out of 551 different from a pool of 2044. And remember, 69 of the 551 different are pop 1's, so how in the world is he coming up with all those certs? >>
What is so difficult to understand? I caught him cheating. He entered a card into his set that he didn't own. If you want to argue that the majority of his cards are legit, fine. You're probably right. But I know that at least one wasn't. And based on the rest of the evidence I cited earlier, I don't think that was the only card. All the statistics you posted are true. But in a way, it is irrelevant. I'm guessing that he does own the majority of the cards, but when he sees on eBay a PSA 10 he doesn't have he enters it into his set. When it sells, if the new owner enters it he loses it. That would explain why the set drops from time to time. But I'm sure there are a lot of collectors who don't use the set registry. Even I haven't registered every card I own. If the buyer of the card doesn't submit the number to PSA, it remains in his set. I can't prove that, it is just speculation. But I did catch this guy doing it once. Where there's smoke, there's fire. >>
How exactly did you catch him cheating? Do you have anything other then the card is/was on ebay and is/was in his set?
"Wow in the world is he coming up with all those certs?"
I would not assume by stealing numbers.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
How exactly did you catch him cheating? Do you have anything other then the card is/was on ebay and is/was in his set?
"Wow in the world is he coming up with all those certs?"
I would not assume by stealing numbers. >>
The card was not his (I was familiar with the seller). It was still for sale on eBay. It had a population of 1. It was a recent addition to his set. Isn't that enough?
I'm not saying his entire set is bogus. But could he have stolen the certs for 5-10% over the course of a year? Why not? I know I caught him once. And with his set rating dropping from time to time, the most likely explanation is that he loses cards that aren't his when the rightful owners register them. How many sets that are 98-99% complete lose cards? I'm sure someone can concoct some unlikely explanation - like, maybe this guy with a 99% complete 1976 set with a 9.5 grade worth, what, $20,000?, desperately needed $40 so he sold a couple for $20 each???????????? Isn't it obvious that this guy is cheating?
<< <i>No, it is not obvious. All you caught him at is doing what people did on occasion before the what if feature. You claim that he registers certs he sees and then removes them only after the real owners try to register them. If you have a set registered then in all your rantings about this you haven't mentioned one time it happened to you. All the time you've had this up not a single other 1976 registrant has confirmed that they're having problems registering cards and you might be on to something. Did you contact them? >>
No, I did not go up and down the list of registered sets to contact them. I thought a less intrusive way to get some friendly advice would be to post here (guess I was wrong). In fact, I registered just to do that.
Why do you keep challenging me on this? If you think I'm wrong, or crazy, or a liar, just move on.
To answer some of your questions, many times I have registered a card, only to find it was already in someone's set and had to go through the hassle of emailing the scans. Was it him? I have no way of knowing. And if you enter a card for a "what-if," wouldn't you immediately delete it? The card he entered was there for several days. I emailed him, asking how he could have it in his set when it was still on eBay and rather than reply he just adjusted his set so that it cannot be viewed. Kind of suspicious, don't you think? His email link is still active. Go ahead and ask him yourself. I'd be very surprised if you got a response.
<< <i>Why do you assume it is a guy? This set holder could be female. A female contacted me on my cell phone. I was shocked to find out later that this person bought a card from me on eBay. A Buy It Now item. She never paid for the card but used the purchase to obtain my listed phone number on my account. She then proceeded to tell me she was interested in a 1968 Topps PSA 10 Mickey Mantle I was also trying to sell. She attempted to negoatiate a lower price. I explained I'd only take a certain amount. She went on about paying me in two installments if I'd remove it from auction. Guess what set she owned... 1976 Topps set your talking about. She even removed the block on the set as I spoke with her so I could see that she was a legit collector. I later realized she was all talk and no buyer! I have since sold my PSA 10 Mantle to a dealer for what I had into it. My guess is this 76 Topps Set collector is just messing around again and doing things to get attention... and that's about it. Sad what people will do to get a little attention! >>
Before this problem popped up, he had emailed me and had a masculine name. That's why I used the word "guy." However, convention is to use the masculine form when the gender is unknown or a mixed group. In the world of baseball card collecting, your chances of being correct are probably pretty good.