Some potential loopholes for coin doctors
RYK
Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am back from vacation and have reviewed the videos think that the anti-doctoring detection system is very good, but there are several pitfalls and loopholes that even a piker like myself can immediately conceive.
1. Just send the coin to NGC. They do not have the technology that PCGS does. Many of the doctored coins already go there.
2. Just send the coin through the non-Secure Plus grading pathway. Sure, if you are working on $100,000 coins, this is not an option, but it still is for $10,000 coins.
3. Judging by the video, the image that the grader will see would definitely show a complete change in color (from bright to deeply toned, or vice versa), but it does not look good enough to see that a subtle scratch was puttied over or smaller changes that could get coins into the holder in the next grade up. Plus, a good dip job may still make the coin more flashy (for a time), and this probably will not show on the photos.
Nonetheless, the noose continues to get tighter for the coin docs, a good thing, but my guess is that the best of these are not out of the game, not by a long shot.
1. Just send the coin to NGC. They do not have the technology that PCGS does. Many of the doctored coins already go there.
2. Just send the coin through the non-Secure Plus grading pathway. Sure, if you are working on $100,000 coins, this is not an option, but it still is for $10,000 coins.
3. Judging by the video, the image that the grader will see would definitely show a complete change in color (from bright to deeply toned, or vice versa), but it does not look good enough to see that a subtle scratch was puttied over or smaller changes that could get coins into the holder in the next grade up. Plus, a good dip job may still make the coin more flashy (for a time), and this probably will not show on the photos.
Nonetheless, the noose continues to get tighter for the coin docs, a good thing, but my guess is that the best of these are not out of the game, not by a long shot.
0
Comments
my understanding of this is that the lasers would almost certainly match the coin with one on file and the differences would be seen in the profile, then a comparison would reveal the changes. consider that the "threshhold" mentioned is at 65% for two coins to be considered different. if a puttied coin changes the profile to a 77% match they would be very, very suspicious.
i think we all need to trust HRH when he tells us that PCGS made a sincere attempt to prove to themselves that the system was competent. though he is first-and-foremost the lead for PCGS and in that regard a salesman, i thought his presentation was sincere.
<< <i>.....................but it does not look good enough to see that a subtle scratch was puttied over
my understanding of this is that the lasers would almost certainly match the coin with one on file and the differences would be seen in the profile, then a comparison would reveal the changes. consider that the "threshhold" mentioned is at 65% for two coins to be considered different. if a puttied coin changes the profile to a 77% match they would be very, very suspicious.
i think we all need to trust HRH when he tells us that PCGS made a sincere attempt to prove to themselves that the system was competent. though he is first-and-foremost the lead for PCGS and in that regard a salesman, i thought his presentation was sincere. >>
Keets, watching the video, I was given the impression that the technology was used to match the coins, not detect alterations. I may, of course, be mistaken.
I believe you are Correct, but once matched any alterations will stand out. AT or altered coins will then get a genuine holder not a graded one. One more doctored coin off the market for PCGS to worry about. I think that is the point they are making.
Edited to add: I mean this in the nicest of terms, I do not think PCGS is concerned about what CAC and NGC are doing. At the very least they are more concerned with what PCGS is doing. This technology will help them move their product forward in the market place; isn't that what they are in business to do?
here's how i understood the presentation.
a coin would be scanned, checked against the available database, graded, encapsulated and all the information would be stored in the PCGS database. if the identical coin is submitted raw the process will be repeated. when the database matches it with an already scanned profile the grader will view the two coins side-by-side. my assumption is that it will be easy enough to discern where the "same coin" is different from the data provided by each scan.