Some have not been playing nicely in the metals market.

Mesquite

JP Morgan, apparently.

derryb

What makes this different than the Bernie Madoff warnings that were ignored by the SEC is this:

The manipulations in precious metals are taking place at the bequest of and with the full blessing of the the president's National Economic Council (a.ka. Plunge Protection Team), chaired by Larry Summers. The banks doing the trading are allowed to profit for their role in assisting the PPT. Taking down the PMs is but one part of the PPT's efforts to keep money from leaving the Wall Street markets. Note that the accusations in the Zero Hedge post also included more paper than physical to back it. This is the flaw in the PPTs efforts. In this game of Musical Chairs, eventually the music will stop and those with the extra paper will find no chair.

Do not expect any government agency, including the CFTC, to interfere with the White House's National Economic Council's efforts to control the economy.

secondrepublic

If manipulation is really happening then it's a trading opportunity for anyone, since you should be able to predict where the market is headed.

For me, personally, I don't mind being able to buy more physical PMs at what are -- according to the article -- artificially deflated prices.

derryb

<< <i>If manipulation is really happening then it's a trading opportunity for anyone, since you should be able to predict where the market is headed.

For me, personally, I don't mind being able to buy more physical PMs at what are -- according to the article -- artificially deflated prices. >>



And will you change your tune if they become artifically deflated to half of what you paid for them? The issue here is manipulated markets that are not behaving under the normal rules of supply and demand. If "they" can keep the price down, what's to stop them from cutting it in half and keeping it there.

Why do we buy PMs? Because we believe there will be a greater demand for them in the future. Some do it as "an inflation hedge." Others do it as asset insurance. Manipulated, lower prices, when they should be soaring, is artificially interfering with demand.

secondrepublic

I don't plan on selling until the markets stop being manipulated. If the price falls in half I'll just buy a lot more.

By the way, with the rise of China, India, etc., my belief is that these market manipulation schemes will eventually become impossible to sustain. Economic power will be too decentralized for a single bank/government to run things.

RGJohn

<< <i>I ..... with the rise of China, India, etc., my belief is that these market manipulation schemes will eventually become impossible to sustain. Economic power will be too decentralized for a single bank/government to run things. >>



Amen.

KUCH

<< <i>What makes this different than the Bernie Madoff warnings that were ignored by the SEC is this:

The manipulations in precious metals are taking place at the bequest of and with the full blessing of the the president's National Economic Council (a.ka. Plunge Protection Team), chaired by Larry Summers. The banks doing the trading are allowed to profit for their role in assisting the PPT. Taking down the PMs is but one part of the PPT's efforts to keep money from leaving the Wall Street markets. Note that the accusations in the Zero Hedge post also included more paper than physical to back it. This is the flaw in the PPTs efforts. In this game of Musical Chairs, eventually the music will stop and those with the extra paper will find no chair.

Do not expect any government agency, including the CFTC, to interfere with the White House's National Economic Council's efforts to control the economy. >>



AND SO... WHERE DO YOU INVEST?????

mhammerman

"And will you change your tune if they become artifically deflated to half of what you paid for them? The issue here is manipulated markets that are not behaving under the normal rules of supply and demand. If "they" can keep the price down, what's to stop them from cutting it in half and keeping it there."

Hummmmmmmm...seems that all those that have an interest in the pog aren't necessarily just the ones involved in pushing paper around. China and India aren't actively manipulating with paper and so far as I can see they are mostly interested in physical holdings, not paper. So, when is the last time anyone heard anything about the US buying gold? Point is that not everyone is playing with paper, some are playing with physical. It may be that while the local paper boys are playing a chase game with each other that there's a whole 'nother group of serious players that are just gathering physical. Is physical gold really worth all it's cranked up to be or is the paper more valuable in the market place and therefore more liquid? Certainly this will get curiouser and curiouser.

roadrunner

Fwiw I went back to metal prices on Feb 5th, the day that London metal's trader Andrew Maguire predicted a smackdown 2 days before it occured. Feb 5th was the bottom in gold and silver for this year. Gold was taken down from $1063 to $1044 and silver from $15.30 to $14.65. Interesting that gold recovered to close at $1065 and silver to $15.10. The takedown coincided with the 8:30 am EST January jobs report. It should be noted that both gold and silver were also hit hard for both days before as well. Gold fell almost $50 the day before so they were in rout mode at the time. During that week gold took the usual 3 hard steps down from $1130. To me, what was strange was how quickly the metals sprang back after hitting bottom. Gold & silver stocks, financials, and the S&P did the same thing as well. Hard to say which end is the dog and which end is the tail. In any event, a lot of money was taken from J6P that day and transfered over to the Banksters. A trader posting on GIM noted that on Feb 4th, someone in a "rush" to sell gold for the least amount possible, in less than a quarter-of-a-second sold about 2,000 futures contracts driving the price down instantly a hundred ticks. Tracks of the "bankstas?"

China is in effect manipulating its currency by keeping it linked to the US dollar. In effect they benefit by the constant dollar devaluation. And no one can claim they are currency manipulators w/o involving the US as well. For now, the Chinese love where they sit.

If manipulation is really happening then it's a trading opportunity for anyone, since you should be able to predict where the market is headed.

You won't be able to predict the takedowns as they happen when the Banks/PTB want them to happen. But they do tend to coincide with some news of the day whether it's Greece, Dubai, economic reports, etc. The Banks seem to like to move the market during jobs reports for example. The only way to take advantage of these manipulations is to buy following the takedowns on weakness. The banks are working on both ends as they alternately adjust their long and short positions to make money on rising or falling prices. In this way they keep J6P from figuring out an obvious short term trend and scare him into thinking the next drop is right around the corner. Hence few J6P's will ever join the gold/silver party. Buying in on strong dips and holding longer term is one way to benefit.

Coordinated gold manipulation is not new. The 1962-1968 London gold pool run by the G-7 at the time ran out of easy gold in 1968 and finally had to shut down their operations as the open market price of gold continued to run up into 1969. It then took a couple year breather than ran up again from 1971-1974. The 3rd and final run up occured from late 1976-1980. Even though the inflationary trends started in the early 1960's, it took nearly 20 years to flush it all out of the system by 1982. Former Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin honed his gold manipulation craft while manning the GS gold desk at the London Gold pool in the later 1960's. Rubin passed along his knowledge to Summers while at USTreasury before moving on to Citi. These gold manipulations may work short term, but eventually they all fail as market supply/demand ultimately wins out. The London Gold Pool went threw a few thousand tons of gold to keep prices managed. In the last 20 years it is estimated that the central banks have leased/sold 5,000-15,000 tons of gold in their efforts to manage gold prices.

roadrunner

derryb

<< <i>

<< <i>What makes this different than the Bernie Madoff warnings that were ignored by the SEC is this:

The manipulations in precious metals are taking place at the bequest of and with the full blessing of the the president's National Economic Council (a.ka. Plunge Protection Team), chaired by Larry Summers. The banks doing the trading are allowed to profit for their role in assisting the PPT. Taking down the PMs is but one part of the PPT's efforts to keep money from leaving the Wall Street markets. Note that the accusations in the Zero Hedge post also included more paper than physical to back it. This is the flaw in the PPTs efforts. In this game of Musical Chairs, eventually the music will stop and those with the extra paper will find no chair.

Do not expect any government agency, including the CFTC, to interfere with the White House's National Economic Council's efforts to control the economy. >>



AND SO... WHERE DO YOU INVEST????? >>



My post about manipulation was an explanation of why it will continue. It was not a reason to avoid PMs.

The price suppression of the metals markets does not affect my purchasing of PMs. I purchase them knowing the manipulation cannot be sustained forever. Market manipulation should not be ignored by the serious investor. It should be studied and fully understood in order to maximize profits.

CaptHenway

ttt