I don't see how the "+" designation impacts CAC, thoughts?

Constantine

CAC is still the third party giving the bean of approval. The plus sign is from the same party that graded the coin. If you are one of those persons that likes another opinion on a graded coin, then it sounds like a company like CAC is still that other person.

airplanenut

There's a little less room to put the sticker if you don't want any text on the label covered up

Batman23

True, but this just tighened up CACs grading as well. They have less room for error. For example they should not sticker a MS65.6 coin in a MS65+ holder as it is not PQ for grade. They are now forced to grade within a couple tenths of a grade instead of half a grade.

Batman23

<< <i>There's a little less room to put the sticker if you don't want any text on the label covered up >>





Goodpoint. Maybe CAC will just let PCGS do the work and then place thier bean directly over the + sign

DennisH

I think this is a serious blow to CAC for submissions of PCGS coins, particularly those whose values are already $3,000 or more. (I believe PCGS coins make up the largest share of CAC submissions?) I believe the half-point bump for + grade coins in the Registry will funnel a significant number of coins to PCGS instead of to CAC. The more valuable the coin, the more significant the upside retail potential will be for + coins, and thus the less important the difference between the $10 CAC fee and the minimum $65 Express level PCGS regrade fee becomes.

19Lyds

I don't think this will affect CAC at all.

TPG's can and often do agree to disagree (+ or - / sticker or not) or agree to agree.

The real question is: Will PCGS Secure Plus+ grades that get a CAC sticker, automatically be considered upgradeable and will dealers push that fact?

oreville

<< <i>I think this is a serious blow to CAC for submissions of PCGS coins, particularly those whose values are already $3,000 or more. (I believe PCGS coins make up the largest share of CAC submissions?) I believe the half-point bump for + grade coins in the Registry will funnel a significant number of coins to PCGS instead of to CAC. The more valuable the coin, the more significant the upside retail potential will be for + coins, and thus the less important the difference between the $10 CAC fee and the minimum $65 Express level PCGS regrade fee becomes. >>



I disagree.

Believe it or not, this is an event in which both PCGS and CAC wins. But only for 15% or so for all submissions.

oreville

<< <i>I don't think this will affect CAC at all.
TPG's can and often do agree to disagree (+ or - / sticker or not) or agree to agree.
The real question is: Will PCGS Secure Plus+ grades that get a CAC sticker, automatically be considered upgradeable and will dealers push that fact? >>



You need to ask coinguy to consult with his great uncle (Max Mehl). Those great marketing dealers of the past who are now looking over us are probably the only ones who really know the answer to that question.

RYK

As I have said elsewhere, for most collectors, the CAC is a better deal. For $10 you get quick turnaround, an offer to buy your coin, and, if your coin does not pass, your $10 back and the reason the coin did not sticker (which has been very enlightening for me).

Goldbully

coinguy1

<< <i>True, but this just tighened up CACs grading as well. They have less room for error. For example they should not sticker a MS65.6 coin in a MS65+ holder as it is not PQ for grade. They are now forced to grade within a couple tenths of a grade instead of half a grade. >>

CAC will be evaluating coins exactly as they did before. They will sticker the coin (or not) based entirely on the numerical grade, not the "plus" designation. The "plus" designation will not be considered in arriving at a decision.

DennisH

<< <i>As I have said elsewhere, for most collectors, the CAC is a better deal. For $10 you get quick turnaround, an offer to buy your coin, and, if your coin does not pass, your $10 back and the reason the coin did not sticker (which has been very enlightening for me). >>

Oh?

I've never gotten a refund on any of my coins that did not CAC.

RYK

<< <i>

<< <i>As I have said elsewhere, for most collectors, the CAC is a better deal. For $10 you get quick turnaround, an offer to buy your coin, and, if your coin does not pass, your $10 back and the reason the coin did not sticker (which has been very enlightening for me). >>

Oh?

I've never gotten a refund on any of my coins that did not CAC. >>



I have. Are you sure? They usually deduct it from return postage.

Constantine

Well now after hearing that in 6 weeks NGC will be offering the plus designations as well, it seems even more to me that plus signs will be more and more common and the CAC sticker remains the way to go for another seal of approval. Also, don't get me wrong, I collect mainly PCGS graded coins, and support the company, and prefer them strongly over NGC, but I have to say that if you want another opinion on your coin, a separate company that graded that coin like CAC is the way to do it. So in a few months/years we will have many PCGS/NGC graded coins with plus signs. That will show that the coin is nicer than the assigned grade, a half grade so to speak. People will still want CAC (or another party) to provide their opinion on the grade too.

Batman23

<< <i>

<< <i>True, but this just tighened up CACs grading as well. They have less room for error. For example they should not sticker a MS65.6 coin in a MS65+ holder as it is not PQ for grade. They are now forced to grade within a couple tenths of a grade instead of half a grade. >>

CAC will be evaluating coins exactly as they did before. They will sticker the coin (or not) based entirely on the numerical grade, not the "plus" designation. The "plus" designation will not be considered in arriving at a decision. >>



I thought that CAC was issued as PQ for the grade. PCGS is marketing the + designation as a grade with it's own spaces in the price guide. How can CAC disregard the designation in their decision? What you are saying is that if PCGS gives a MS65+ grade on a MS65.6 coin, CAC will sticker it because it is PQ for the MS65 grade even though it is not PQ for the MS65+ grade?

Justacommeman

I wonder what premium a plus coin with a CAC sticker will garner? So much for knowledge is king.................MJ

BigE

In the video I believe D.H. states that the plus sign indicates a _ _.7-9 grade only-------BigE

coinguy1

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>True, but this just tighened up CACs grading as well. They have less room for error. For example they should not sticker a MS65.6 coin in a MS65+ holder as it is not PQ for grade. They are now forced to grade within a couple tenths of a grade instead of half a grade. >>

CAC will be evaluating coins exactly as they did before. They will sticker the coin (or not) based entirely on the numerical grade, not the "plus" designation. The "plus" designation will not be considered in arriving at a decision. >>



I thought that CAC was issued as PQ for the grade. PCGS is marketing the + designation as a grade with it's own spaces in the price guide. How can CAC disregard the designation in their decision? What you are saying is that if PCGS gives a MS65+ grade on a MS65.6 coin, CAC will sticker it because it is PQ for the MS65 grade even though it is not PQ for the MS65+ grade? >>

What I am saying, is that when evaluating a coin which is a 65 or a 65 with a plus designation, it will be treated the same way - it will either receive a sticker or not, based on CAC's standard for a 65.

Unknown

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Constantine

It will be interesting to see if shortly CAC has any kind of announcement or a plan to stir things up a bit now that both PCGS and NGC are doing "plus" grades. Or if they feel they can just sit tight and keep receiving submissions for a lower cost than PCGS.

MrEureka

I thought that CAC was issued as PQ for the grade. PCGS is marketing the + designation as a grade with it's own spaces in the price guide. How can CAC disregard the designation in their decision?

CAC's primary activity is making markets in coins that meet its own standards. Since they don't make markets for "plus" grades, it makes sense that they would ignore the plus signs. And though it earlier made sense for them to describe their standards as being for PQ or Solid for the grade, I would expect their terminology to change to reflect the new grading scales at PCGS and NGC. But nothing has really changed. They'll buy the coins they can live with at prices that make sense to them. Hard to argue with that.