What would you do with this ebay scenario?Photo added
drfish
Posts: 948 ✭✭✭✭
I purchased a BIN 07w Jefferson Liberty MS70 FS.When I recieve the coin it has a 3 mm copper colored streak in the open field behind the back of Liberties head-obvious in hand and quite distracting.This blemish is not visible on the sellers photo(even magnified and knowing its there) or noted in the description.Of course the coin is listed as no returns accepted.I have sent a polite email asking to exchange the coin and if no duplicates are available a refund.If the seller sticks to the no returns accepted would this sort of blemish qualify for the paypal coverage under the not as described policy?The coins low value in my mind wouldn't make it worth sending to PCGS for spot review.What would you do?
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Comments
<< <i>If the seller sticks to the no returns accepted would this sort of blemish qualify for the paypal coverage under the not as described policy? >>
Based on the listing posted, I don't see how. He advertised a PCGS MS70 and that's what you received.
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<< <i>If the seller sticks to the no returns accepted would this sort of blemish qualify for the paypal coverage under the not as described policy? >>
Based on the listing posted, I don't see how. He advertised a PCGS MS70 and that's what you received. >>
I agree. If you have an issue with the coin, it seems as if that should be between you and PCGS. I would probably have a different opinion, had the seller described the coin as perfect, blemish-free, etc.
<< <i>Live and learn- but I expected a PCGS ms70 in .999 gold to be blemish free >>
Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem fair to the seller to expect him to be responsible for what you expected of PCGS's grading standards.
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<< <i>If the seller sticks to the no returns accepted would this sort of blemish qualify for the paypal coverage under the not as described policy? >>
Based on the listing posted, I don't see how. He advertised a PCGS MS70 and that's what you received. >>
I agree. If you have an issue with the coin, it seems as if that should be between you and PCGS. I would probably have a different opinion, had the seller described the coin as perfect, blemish-free, etc. >>
I agree with Mark's logic. However, I have a couple of comments:
1. The way you describe the spot it should be visible on the photo. Is the photo the same coin? (I can't see it on this computer). Does he say is a stock photo? Is it an old photo? If it is a stock photo then I would think it is his responsibility to describe any significant differences.
2. I sell a lot of 70s. I know that buyers do not expect to recieve a coin that has naked-eye visible spots. Omitting a spot on a 70 from the description is in my opinion "not as described".
Of course I DO accept returns so my attitude starts out different than this seller.
I agree the 70s in this series have such little premium that spot review seems not to be cost effective.
--jerry
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<< <i>Live and learn- but I expected a PCGS ms70 in .999 gold to be blemish free >>
Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem fair to the seller to expect him to be responsible for what you expected of PCGS's grading standards. >>
Isn't the seller responsible to adequately describe the coin and, if he shows a pic, shouldn't the pic show the coin as it actually looks? I would return the coin and, if necessary, do a chargeback.
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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<< <i>Live and learn- but I expected a PCGS ms70 in .999 gold to be blemish free >>
Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem fair to the seller to expect him to be responsible for what you expected of PCGS's grading standards. >>
Isn't the seller responsible to adequately describe the coin and, if he shows a pic, shouldn't the pic show the coin as it actually looks? I would return the coin and, if necessary, do a chargeback. >>
Playing devil's advocate....
Bidders know or should know that images don't show coins perfectly - as they actually look in hand. We don't know that the images were sub-par. And shouldn't a prospective bidder ask in advance, about any concerns he/she has?
coin.I would send it back.
1- Just ask the seller and see what he says
2- PayPal will accept anything for item not as described. The way they favor the buyer, the item could be exactly as described with a writeup and historical account by QDB, and the buyer would still get their money back.
<< <i>If I buy a 70 that's just what I expect to receive,not a 68 or a 69 but a perfect
coin.I would send it back. >>
The major TPG's do not require that a coin be perfect in order to grade it 70. So your expectations might be unreasonable.
I have seen several posts about modern gold coins developing toning in pcgs holders.
<< <i>My two cents:
1- Just ask the seller and see what he says
2- PayPal will accept anything for item not as described. The way they favor the buyer, the item could be exactly as described with a writeup and historical account by QDB, and the buyer would still get their money back. >>
<< <i>I expected a PCGS ms70 to be perfect and blemish free(pass the kool-aid). >>
Then it would appear your dispute is with PCGS, not the seller.
On the other hand if it is quite obviouse the pic was photoshopped/altered to hide the spotting I would say you have an item not as described. Pic is always part of the description unless stated otherwise. Would help if you posted YOUR pic of the coin.
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It could easily be returned and get a refund from paypal.
Looks to me like he got what he bid on.
And as memtioned if he does not agree with the grade it's between him and the Graders not the seller.
peacockcoins
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I do not understand the no return ebay thing, unless it is flagrant paypal sides with the buyer and they probably should.
Over the years i have taken back about 6 to 10 coins for any number of reasons. Most likely buyers remorse. I have bought 100's of coins and never returned one EVEN when they should have been.
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<< <i>I would send it back if i was not happy and paypal will refund you. I would not care who the seller is. Every monitor is different and i can not see the spot on the pic Coinguy1 posted. While i call it a cheap bullion coin others do not. If i had to struggle and count my cents to buy a coin like this i would expect perfection.
I do not understand the no return ebay thing, unless it is flagrant paypal sides with the buyer and they probably should.
Over the years i have taken back about 6 to 10 coins for any number of reasons. Most likely buyers remorse. I have bought 100's of coins and never returned one EVEN when they should have been. >>
You don't see a spot or stain behind Liberty't hair at roughly 9:00?
<< <i>I do not understand the no return ebay thing, unless it is flagrant paypal sides with the buyer and they probably should. >>
What *should* happen is that those buyers who expect to have a return privilege should not bid in auctions which don't offer one. Sure would solve a lot of problems, but I'm not holding my breath that that's going to happen anytime soon.
I am not willing to cut the seller slack for the omission of mentioning the spot. The photo is iffy. Why should all of the risk be on the buyer's side here?
Should not the seller represent their wares accurately? If you do not disclose blemishes, that's a problem.
The lack of the return policy reinforces my opinion that this is not a good seller. I side with the buyer.
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<< <i>I do not understand the no return ebay thing, unless it is flagrant paypal sides with the buyer and they probably should. >>
What *should* happen is that those buyers who expect to have a return privilege should not bid in auctions which don't offer one. Sure would solve a lot of problems, but I'm not holding my breath that that's going to happen anytime soon. >>
Well said! And it is nothing at all personal against the OP, whom I happen to think is a good guy.
I am with Mark - from what is stated here - between you and PCGS. And of course the No Returns thing and you...want a return. Did you ask question before buying? With No Returns stated, regardless of a chargeback or anything else in play, I hope you had questions. I could never buy from an image like that for example. I am thinking you must have asked questions and asked for scans - he has no photo of the reverse so you asked to see more scans?
Best,
Eric
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
"You are agreeing to a contract -- You will enter into a legally binding contract to purchase the item from the seller if you're the winning bidder. You are responsible for reading the full item listing, including the seller's instructions and accepted payment methods."
Yeah... bad seller. He ignored a spot (or so people are assuming). Buyer ignored the listing terms, but that's different, right?
Hi again,
I just saw this upon re-reading. You had no questions! With apparently no reverse photo and not huge feedback..and the small bad Obv. photo you did see...why did you NOT ask questions? From the above "I expected..." one could think you are buying plastic over your own judgement. Buy the coin...
Best,
Eric
Edited to add: "Obv photo you did see"
Well said! And it is nothing at all personal against the OP, whom I happen to think is a good guy"
I would have to agree w/ these comments here. A no return policy is something you should factor into the price you would be willing to pay for a coin.
No return Policy? Offer less (or don't bid)
Hazy pictures? Offer less (or don't bid)
Bad seller rep? Offer less (or don't bid)
Me selling something on the BST? Pay more then I have it listed for. (or pay more then that)
This says nothing of the OP as coinguy pointed out or for that matter the seller at this point. People can have a no return policy for a myriad of reasons, especially w/ the level and quality of counterfeiting going on these days. In this case the issue seems like it lies w/ PCGS and there inclusion of stained coins for MS70 coins (assuming it was holdered like that and didn't develop the streak after). If a stain like this is what is allowed per grading standards then you would have to factor in the chance that any one of them have some type of staining, especially when purchasing off ebay. Good luck to you and hope it works out for you. Maybe in 50 years everyone will be talking not about all the perfect gold coins as the one they want but about the perfect coin with the copper streak that is unique.
Best,
Eric
EAC 6024
Best,
Eric
Edited for spelling. Ok ok, I can't type.
<< <i>Don't worry guys from now on I'll ask if there are any alloy spots/copper spots /blemishes/issues that aren't apparent in the photo and think twice before buying a coin with a no return option. - I've learned my lesson, even .999 gold in PCGS 70 holders can have problems.I still feel that the seller could have posted a more honest photo and/or description.In hand that spot is obvious at all angles-don't really see how it pretty much disappeared in the listing photo but is obvious on my cell phone picture. >>
That's one solution. I would just stay away from listings in which sellers don't allow returns. There is almost always another opportunity to buy the coin without having to worry about things like this.
<< <i>No return Policy? Offer less (or don't bid)
Hazy pictures? Offer less (or don't bid)
Bad seller rep? Offer less (or don't bid) >>
Well said yourself.
Bidders who don't pay attention to what they're bidding on (or who the seller is) are the reason bad sellers are around at all. Those kinds of sellers wouldn't bother with eBay if they couldn't make any money there, and it's the bids they're getting that allow them to make that money.
Bidders- the ball's in your court.
as it is, it does not meet eBay 'rules'
but does point out the folly of assuming just because it says so on the slab, makes it so
ps, there is a very small carbon spot seen in pic
Just send it in for spot review. That's what I'd do.
Something else to consider. Spots form.
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<< <i>I don't mean to be giving you a hard time over this, but if you want a return privilege, why are you bidding on auctions that specifically do not allow returns? Seems to me that's a good way to end up disappointed. >>
generally, there's a reason why a seller won't allow returns.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!