Lafayette Dollar values

Barberian

Why are circulated Lafayette dollars listed so high in the PCGS price guide? They are listed at $600 in EF40 and $750 in UA55. Meanwhile, most circulated Lafayette dollars sell for $250-350 on Ebay.

RedTiger

Price guides are only a guide. Real world auction prices are often lower (usually the case) or higher (in a few selected series).

With that out of the way, I check the prices on Lafayette's every now and again. I don't remember seeing any certified AUs sell for under $400. Certified net AUs with problems often list buy-it-now for $500+. Are you talking about possible fakes? (There are a lot of fake Lafayettes out there.) Raw coins with problems?

Do you have any links to completed auctions to present as evidence? If the authenticity is questionable, or there are problems with the coin, that will often explain low auction results. Often times the buyers aren't getting any bargains either.

shorecoll

Lots of ebay circ Lafayettes are problem coins, harshly cleaned at best.

Barberian

Here's one that looks nice that closed a few hours ago on EBay. Final price: $255.

Lafayette dollar in AU

RedTiger

<< <i>Here's one that looks nice that closed a few hours ago on EBay. Final price: $255.

Lafayette dollar in AU >>



Do you think it is real? If it is real, the seller likely would have gotten $350 or more in a PCGS Genuine holder. If it is real, the buyer got a decent deal.

Like I said, there are a lot of fake Lafayettes on the market. A good percentage of the fakes probably get sold raw on Ebay. Some of the fakes are quite good. This is a coin that has been faked for several decades because of the big price tag. So even if from an old time collection, there is a good chance of fakes.

Personally, there is no way I would buy a raw Lafayette from the average Ebay seller. I don't have near enough skill to authenticate the coin. The Ebay typical seller is in the same boat and may not even know they are selling a fake.

COALPORTER

Many fakes on the market too. This is where I would go slabbed if you don't know them very well. imo.

I think there is a rare variety or type too ?

DNADave

<< <i>Many fakes on the market too. This is where I would go slabbed if you don't know them very well. imo.

I think there is a rare variety or type too ? >>



I think there is one where the leaf/branch on the lower reverse ends between the 1 and 9 in the date. Someone with more experience could nail it down some more.

Barberian

How would one identify a fake from a real Lafayette dollar without sending a coin to a TPG service? I can compare a coin with diagnostics for the different Duvall varieties. Would that be enough? I'm concerned about purchasing a fake and not having enough time or information to identify it as authentic before Ebay conflict resolution time limits expire. Certainly purchasing PCGS, ANACS, or NGC certified coins would be one way to avoid the counterfeit problem, but that horse has already left the barn, so to speak. I purchased the linked coin before becoming aware of the counterfeit problem with these coins.



Thanks in advance for your response.

Barberian

I received the Lafayette today. As far as I can tell, it is authentic. It has the characteristic sharp die-polishing lines and die breaks of an authentic coin. I purchased PCGS' Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, which provided some nice information on authentication. There is no evidence of cleaning and the toning looks natural to me. I'm heaving a huge sigh of relief. It shows several nicks to the obverse profiles and some abrasion from a wiping, but nothing unusual for a coin that circulated for awhile. At least it's not a fake. Hopefully it will make it into a slab someday. For now, it goes into my 7094 Dansco.

RedTiger

I'm not an expert. A quick look at the pics, would tend to make me lean towards the coin being real.

Keep in mind that reading a book or watching a video will usually only help a person weed out the lower tier of crudely made fakes, and/or fakes with obvious mistakes. I don't think you would have asked the question if you were in that tiny group of collectors (less than 1% of collectors) that have enough expertise to authenticate a Lafayette dollar, so I don't think you are totally out of the woods. The hurdles you have cleared is that the coin isn't a crudely made fake, or a cast copy with a seam. If you have access to a scale, weigh the coin, and that will eliminate another level of lower tier fakery.

If a person has a good relationship with an expert dealer, have that dealer inspect the coin. Unfortunately, many dealers don't have enough expertise to authenticate Lafayettes either. The top tier grading services are the place to go for some piece of mind. Even then, once in a while they too get fooled, but back it up with a guarantee.

/edited for typos

Barberian

You're right. I don't think I'm entirely out of the woods because I just don't know enough about detecting counterfeits. However, the sharp die lines and die cracks suggest that it is not a tranfer die copy, which is apparently the most common forgery technique to produce these dollars. Transfer die copies are better fakes than cast copies. Oh, there is no rim seam.

The coin weighs 26.7 grams and rings like silver. It also shows moderate cartwheeling luster on both sides. The toning is heavy in the lettering with some light crusting, suggesting that it was stored improperly or in a reactive atmosphere. No pitting though. Also no hairlines in the fields to suggest an abrasive cleaning. Just some abrasion and dings on the high points of the devices.

Thanks for your comments, RedTiger.