Gold Holdings By Country

Kd5ddo

I was looking at usdebtclock.org to see where we stand as a country like I do every once in a while, and I noticed a link on the bottom that was new.

It was a real time PM report by country. LINK For some reason I thought the US had a smaller position in gold.

Thoughts?

Justacommeman

I don't believe it for a second............MJ

AboutAg

<< <i>I was looking at usdebtclock.org to see where we stand as a country like I do every once in a while, and I noticed a link on the bottom that was new.

It was a real time PM report by country. LINK For some reason I thought the US had a smaller position in gold.

Thoughts? >>



Wikipedia Wikipedia shows the U.S. as having 8,133.5 tonnes, which at 32150.75 troy ounces/tonne is 261.5 million ounces. If you multiple that by 1.097 to get avoirdupois ounces, you get 286.8Moz, which is close to their number. Maybe that explains the discrepancy?

Kd5ddo

I always thought that the US sold off most of its gold years ago. I dont know why believe that, but i did. Also, I noticed that China's holdings were pretty low compared to the US. Once again this went against the grain of what I thought I knew.

Justacommeman

How much has the US leased? How much is physically owned? MJ

Kd5ddo

JC - I don't know. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I can answer that for you.

Justacommeman

<< <i>JC - I don't know. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I can answer that for you. >>


Facetious questions.................I honestly don't think anyone knows for sure. MJ

Kd5ddo

Ah... I feel a little silly...

Off topic question though, the US can lease it's gold? Also, What happened to the Ft Knox I always heard about as a kid?

derryb

We only know what they want us to know, whether it be fact or fiction.

Justacommeman

<Off topic question though, the US can lease it's gold?>
They have. MJ

roadrunner

In the 4th QTR FED funds flow data there is an entry under US owned gold/SDR's of -$190 BILL attributed to the 3rd QTR of 2009 (ie a back-dated entry). This has been picked up on by a number of gold bug analysts. As far as its meaning? It's possible the US just accounted for the sale/leasing of $190 BILL / 6,000 tons of US gold. That's 75% of what we've "owned" for decades. Why it was finally updated in the 4th QTR report with a backdate to the 3rd QTR will remain a mystery. Someone is playing games with the flow of funds report and central banking in general.

Page 24 of the just issued 4th QTR report, line 14 shows the above entry.

Link to FED report via Rob Kirby article

roadrunner

sinin1

Is that government holdings



or total holdings within the country?


-individuals, banks, companies, jewelry. ........

clouisejewelers

Even if the U.S. still owns and holds the ENTIRE 8133 TONS, its value at the current spot price of $1125 per ounce is less than $300 billion. There are individual weeks where the government issues $200-250 billion in new debt. WEEKS! The deficit for this year alone will be $2.5 TRILLION or more! At that rate we could sell the entire supply of U.S. government owned gold and finance new spending for about 6 weeks. Then what the heck do we do? Issue more paper!!!

That's the best case scenario, if we have all that gold. It shows you how insanely undervalued gold is, or how insanely we overspend. One or the other has to change, we either get huge inflation in the money supply to keep our current spending and asset values(and crush the value of the dollar) or we get crushing deflation where everybody makes $2/day and 401Ks and pensions are worthless and almost all entitlements end. Which do you think is more likely?

cohodk

<< <i>Even if the U.S. still owns and holds the ENTIRE 8133 TONS, its value at the current spot price of $1125 per ounce is less than $300 billion. There are individual weeks where the government issues $200-250 billion in new debt. WEEKS! The deficit for this year alone will be $2.5 TRILLION or more! At that rate we could sell the entire supply of U.S. government owned gold and finance new spending for about 6 weeks. Then what the heck do we do? Issue more paper!!!

That's the best case scenario, if we have all that gold. It shows you how insanely undervalued gold is, or how insanely we overspend. One or the other has to change, we either get huge inflation in the money supply to keep our current spending and asset values(and crush the value of the dollar) or we get crushing deflation where everybody makes $2/day and 401Ks and pensions are worthless and almost all entitlements end. Which do you think is more likely? >>




So if the US only owns $300 bill worth, then why does it even matter?


Deflation probably wouldnt push wages to $2/day, nor would 401ks be worthless. The DOW would probably still be at about 3000--1x BV. In 1932 the DOW did trade at about 0.5x BV, but it wasnt there long. In 1933 the DOW went from 0.7x BV to 1.4x BV. So using 1x would be a reasonable worse case. Wages need to fall by at least 20%.

Entitlements, to the extent that they are obscene and unsustainable should end. Entitlements will be slashed in coming years. We talk of how much debt the USA has, but we forget the debt the USA will have. Inflation would make the $12 Tril debt now look smaller, but will make FUTURE entitlement responsibilities that much greater. We probably wont get deflation, but it is probably the best way to "right the ship". It would make the USA more competitive and decrease future obligations. Do people get hurt now? Surely. But more will be hurt in the future. Bite the bullet now and get on with the repairs. Eventually, we will have massive deflation, be it after 80 years of low to moderate inflation like we have enjoyed now, or at the end of a hyperinflationary bubble. Is it better to fall out of a 2 story window or a 10 story window?

roadrunner

That $300 BILL in gold if nothing else is symbolic backing for the $1 TRILL or so of our FRN's that circulate around the world. It does mean something, esp. since the US is the holder of the world's reserve currency. If it didn't mean anything then it should have been sold/leased years ago (maybe it was) to pay down the debt (ie the only thing that the gold is allowed to be used for). During the 1920's the US held around 20,000 to 30,000 tons of gold. And up until 1971 that stockpile was slowly discharged to cover our debts with foreign central banks.

Even if that $190 BILL gold/SDR entry is nothing more than IMF to FED to Treasury liquidity handoff w/no gold involved, it would seem to be yet another way to keep from having liquidity show up in M2 and M3.

roadrunner

ksammut

I am guessing that Larry Edelson's article on reflating the US and World economy through legislating a much higher price for gold has been posted before but if it has not been posted, here it is. Any chance he will be right?

Larry Edelson article