New Top Morgan Die Variety Book

kevinj

I am working on a Top Morgan Die Variety Book.

Obviously the overdates, OMMs, strong doubled dies, strong RPMs,
nice Clash E reverses and a few other varieties should be there.

I am interested to learn what VAM collectors feel the top die varieties are
in the Morgan Dollar series.

For example, which 1878 8TF, 8/7TF, and 7TF should be in this book.

Thanks
Kevin
kevinjflynn88@yahoo.com

blu62vette

How would this differ from the current VAM lists or are you just trying to pinpoint the most popular?

scottgardener

There's the top 40, the top 50, and the top 100; three different VAM top lists that each include some of the most popular varieties.

http://www.vamworld.com

kevinj

Thanks for your input.

I know there are several VAM books out there.

Would not consider doing a book that was just a repeat of what exists.

If you have read the books I have written, my work speaks for itself.

If you would like to know more, please write me at kevinjflynn88@yahoo.com

Thanks
Kevin

blu62vette

I think you could do a great job of mixing some of more popular VAMs. Personally I would say go for the more obvious VAMs. Dont worry about small microscopic but rare VAMs. Find some of the monster gouges, overdates, and misplaced digits. Also thornheads and comet tails. Things you can see with some help but you don't need a 20x microscope. I like VAMs but really just focus on the ones that interest me, no particular list in mind.

kevinj

I agree, the bigger and more obvious, easier to see and enjoy.
The stronger the doubling, repunching, or easily visible the die diagnostic,
normally associates great interest in my opinion.

Some varieties such as the overdates and OMMs are rare when compared to the other types of die varieties
and must be included.

I have seen many doubled ears listed, many of these do not seem as strong as other doubled dies
which have been found.

I am coauthoring with someone who has many years in VAMs and who should
have some good insight into the top varieties based upon collector interest.

When thinking about a Top Morgan book, one thing I hear from collectors alot is Morgan proofs,
it is not so much about a particular VAM or die variety, it was for them the ultimate beauty and perfection
in a coin, a coin to be the pride and joy of their collection, especially the deep cameo high grade proofs.

Maybe this is not what the typical collector wants to see or can afford, perhaps it just should be included in
some fashion as a goal in the series.

Kevin

scottgardener

Perhaps a section devoted to the most dramatic and noteworthy variations, such as 7, 8, or 7/8 tailfeathers on the 1878, or the 1900 O over CC, or dramatic oddities like the spiked eye, spitting eagle, or sextupled star. These are the things that make a coin interesting to a coin collector's friends and family. These are varieties that you can show off, the Morgan's answer to the Lincoln cent's 1922 no D or 1955 DDO.

DennisH

Is this going to be a die variety book, or will it include die oddities? This sounds like hair-splitting, but there's an important distinction to make. It's also a can of worms that I believe the VAM community is already long overdue in addresing.

Die varieties are features on coins produced by dies as a result of how they were made by humans -- even if some of the things on the dies weren't meant to be there. "How they were made" would include doubled dates and mint marks, overdates and over-mintmarks, DDOs and DDRs, die gouges (accidental, but put there by people nonetheless), and die polishing. In my opinion all of these are true die varieties, because the features on the coins resulted from features on dies as they were made and put into service.

Die oddities are the result of something other than features put into the dies by humans, but instead resulted from wear and tear on dies. This category would include all clashes, cracks, die breaks, cuds, filled dies, and rotated reverses.

Grey areas are pitted die coins.

Following this rationale, these current popular VAMs would be examples of die varieties:

1878 8TF VAM 44 (tripled die obverse)
1878-S Long Nocks (over-hubbing)
1882-O VAM 7 (doubled mintmark)
1882-O/S (over-mintmark)
1887/6 (overdate)
1888-O Hot lips (DDO)
1889-O VAM 6 (doubled date)
1890-CC Tailbar (die gouge)
1901 Shifted Eagle (DDR)
1921-S Thornheads (die gouges or heavy polishing)
1903-S Micro-S (wrong mintmark punch)

These popular coins, however, would not be die varieties, but rather would be die oddities... features that were never put into the dies by humans:

1880 VAM 1A Knobbed 8 (die break)
1880-O VAM 1B Scarface (die break)
1887 VAM 1A Donkey Tail (die break)
1891-O VAM 1A E-reverse (die clash)
1921-D TRU-T (filled die)
1921-D VAM 1X (cud)

I'm eager to hear your thoughts/comments.

(edited 3/22 for spelling)

kevinj

<< <i>Perhaps a section devoted to the most dramatic and noteworthy variations, such as 7, 8, or 7/8 tailfeathers on the 1878, or the 1900 O over CC, or dramatic oddities like the spiked eye, spitting eagle, or sextupled star. These are the things that make a coin interesting to a coin collector's friends and family. These are varieties that you can show off, the Morgan's answer to the Lincoln cent's 1922 no D or 1955 DDO. >>



I was leaning that way on the 78s, the 7/8TFs have many variations, all of which are cool,
the 8TF has some nice doubling, some of which, such as the 2/1 show similar doubling,
there are some nice 7TF varieties also.

Plan to include all of the 1900 O/CC OMMs

I am leaning towards the dramatic as a key ingredient.
My coauthor has years in the VAMs, I will use his knowledge and experience on choosing what the collectors wants.

Thanks
Kevin

kevinj

<< <i>Is this going to be a die variety book, or will it include die oddities? This sounds like hair-splitting, but there's an important distinction to make. It's also a can of worms that I believe the VAM community is already long overdue in addresing.
Die varieties are features on coins produced by dies as a result of how they were made by humans -- even if some of the things on the dies weren't meant to be there. "How they were made" would include doubled dates and mint marks, overdates and over-mintmarks, DDOs and DDRs, die gouges (accidental, but put there by people nonetheless), and die polishing. In my opinion all of these are true die varieties, because the features on the coins resulted from features on dies as they were made and put into service.
Die oddities are the result of something other than features put into the dies by humans, but instead resulted from wear and tear on dies. This category would include all clashes, cracks, die breaks, cuds, filled dies, and rotated reverses.
Grey areas are pitted die coins.
Following this rationale, these current popular VAMs would be examples of die varieties:
1878 8TF VAM 44 (tripled die obverse)
1878-S Long Nocks (over-hubbing)
1882-O VAM 7 (doubled mintmark)
1882-O/S (over-mintmark)
1887/6 (overdate)
1888-O Hot lips (DDO)
1889-O VAM 6 (doubled date)
1890-CC Tailbar (die gouge)
1901 Shifted Eagle (DDR)
1921-S Thornheads (die gouges or heavy polishing)
1903-S Micro-S (wrong mintmark punch)
These popular coins, however, would not be die varieties, but rather would be die oddities... features that were never put into the dies by humans:
1880 VAM 1A Knobbed 8 (die break)
1880-O VAM 1B Scarface (die break)
1887 VAM 1A Donkey Tail (die break)
1891-O VAM 1A E-reverse (die clash)
1921-D TRU-T (filled die)
1921-D VAM 1X (cud)
I'm eager to hear your thoughts/comments.
(edited 3/22 for spelling) >>



I believe different people are using different definitions of the term die variety. I would define it as
A die variety is a variation in the working die produced in the creation process or while the working die is being used in production. All coins struck by the working die will show the variation.
This would also include die cracks, scratches, and other elements which occur to the die and appear on every coin
struck by the die. But on the down side, every die hubbed before 1909 is a die variety as the date was hand
punched into the working die by hand, the same is true for mintmarks up through 1996, as it was done by hand,
it will have a unique position on the die and possible variation of depth.

As to what will be in the book, I am leaning towards dramatic as a key element, of course some types of varieties
such as overdates and OMMs must all be included as they are with a rarer class. I will also be listening to my coauthor
on the subject who has many years in VAMs and I believe knows what collectors would enjoy. Also was looking for input
from collectors.

On the 1882O/S, this is not an OMM, but a die crack, would be glad to discuss this. I outlined this in my previous book
on Morgans.

Thanks
Kevin

DennisH

Kevin:

It's your book so you get to decide.
I appreciate the opportunity to offer my 2¢.

kevinj

<< <i>Kevin:
It's your book so you get to decide.
I appreciate the opportunity to offer my 2¢. >>



Hey Dennis,

Writing books forces me to learn more which is part of the incentive of writing,
but the primary reason is to help others with the books I write,
if they do not enjoy the book, then the book has failed.
As I write for the enjoyment of others, it is very important to understand what they
want to see.

Thanks for your input
Kevin

scottgardener

Another something that I would love to see is a way of matching die pairs to VAMs--that is, if you know the VAM, you can look up the obverse and reverse dies, and if one looks up a die, one can know what VAMs it's used on.

The web site VAMWorld is pretty comprehensive, but learning from it is a lot like trying to learn geography by reading an atlas. I'm looking forward to seeing this book, because I wish I knew more about VAMs than I do.