So the legend post and commentary prompt this line of thought...what is the price level

SurfinxHI

of non-dreck?

RYK's comments and others make me wonder if there is a price point that is associated with Dreck/non-Dreck. I have a feeling that I collect Dreck, as Dreck is the only thing I can afford! While I'd like to save up $4000 for a single coin, I know that is not a real possibility...so I'll stick in my $50-$150 range

Though I have to say, I'd rather find a $100 coin for $20 any day of the week versus a $4K coin for $3500K...better appreciation on the dollar!

Thoughts? Or is this a good candidate for a poll?

Greg

RYK

Dreck can be an overgraded MS-64 state quarter, puttied MS-64 High Relief Saint, or AT 1794 Flowing Hair dollar.

savoyspecial

RYK, i'm not sure if ANY 1794 Dollar would be given 'dreck status'

DNADave

A beautiful and fun collection can be made within your budget.

Justacommeman

all there for the grade = non dreck

not there for the grade or messed with coins= dreck

This applies to $100 coins or $10,000 coins in my opinion. MJ

PerryHall

<< <i>all there for the grade = non dreck

not there for the grade or messed with coins= dreck

This applies to $100 coins or $10,000 coins in my opinion. MJ >>



So a high end MS65 1794 silver dollar is dreck if it's in an MS66 slab?

DRUNNER

I put up a related post on this.

I certainly appreciate the coins in my collection regardless of what anyone says with a self-generated derogatory term intended to enhance their own profit margin. 'Dreck' as a term allows us a great chance to debate the meaning, but those of us who have numismatic sense and intelligence collect, appreciate, and discuss coins without regard to those who may have ulterior motives in creating language or interpretation designed to enhance themselves alone.

Enjoy your coins, derive pleasure from your caretaking of them, and never allow yourself to question your own numismatic worth because of something someone else said.

Drunner

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>So a high end MS65 1794 silver dollar is dreck if it's in an MS66 slab? >>



Exactly Perry - now you are making sense.

mrearlygold

I'd like to see how you consistently buy $100 coins for 20 bucks and actually sell them. If you were indeed able to identify coins that would return a 500% return legitimately, methinks you would not have time to post with we little people on a message board. That said,

Don't collect dreck and if you have dreck then get rid of it and replace it with non dreck. What's dreck?

Crappy coins.

Try not to get caught up in the b/s and there's a lot of it out there. Even more than dreck.

TigerGirl1398

<< <i>I put up a related post on this.

I certainly appreciate the coins in my collection regardless of what anyone says with a self-generated derogatory term intended to enhance their own profit margin. 'Dreck' as a term allows us a great chance to debate the meaning, but those of us who have numismatic sense and intelligence collect, appreciate, and discuss coins without regard to those who may have ulterior motives in creating language or interpretation designed to enhance themselves alone.

Enjoy your coins, derive pleasure from your caretaking of them, and never allow yourself to question your own numismatic worth because of something someone else said.

Drunner >>



Especially if what they say isn't spelled or punctuated correctly.

SurfinxHI

<< <i>

<< <i>So a high end MS65 1794 silver dollar is dreck if it's in an MS66 slab? >>



Exactly Perry - now you are making sense. >>



This then implies that one man's great coin is another's dreck, PREDICATED on how a TPG felt on any one given day!!! (or at least how 2 out of 3 people felt on that day). (this assumes a holdered coin, obviously). Again though, it depends on who is looking at it -- thus any coin has the potential to be dreck, particularly if you (the interested party) tends to undergrade coins...I see all sorts of problems with this line of thinking.

Greg

SurfinxHI

<< <i>I'd like to see how you consistently buy $100 coins for 20 bucks and actually sell them. If you were indeed able to identify coins that would return a 500% return legitimately, methinks you would not have time to post with we little people on a message board. That said,

Don't collect dreck and if you have dreck then get rid of it and replace it with non dreck. What's dreck?

Crappy coins.

Try not to get caught up in the b/s and there's a lot of it out there. Even more than dreck. >>



I did not say that I do that consistently...I said I'd rather buy/find a $100 coin for $20 over the other listed example. I did not presuppose that I am better than any other individuals on this board Furthermore, I have been able to accomplish that little trick multiple times, and as near as I can tell, most folks here do it quite often...they typically call it a "RIP".

Part of the problem with collecting is that every now and again, you end up with bad coins, I guess. But much of that to me is a learning curve, and what your bad coin is might be something I'd enjoy, simply because I may not have it, or I like the way it looks. To each their own...

But in general, I do try to stay away from crappy coins...I agree with you on that one!

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>So a high end MS65 1794 silver dollar is dreck if it's in an MS66 slab? >>



Exactly Perry - now you are making sense. >>



This then implies that one man's great coin is another's dreck >>



I don't have any idea what it implies, since I said it as a joke.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>So a high end MS65 1794 silver dollar is dreck if it's in an MS66 slab? >>



Exactly Perry - now you are making sense. >>



This then implies that one man's great coin is another's dreck >>



I don't have any idea what it implies, since I said it as a joke. >>



I was making the point that a coin may not be dreck just because the slabbing company had an off day and graded it generously. I guess my point went over your head.

coinguy1

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>So a high end MS65 1794 silver dollar is dreck if it's in an MS66 slab? >>



Exactly Perry - now you are making sense. >>



This then implies that one man's great coin is another's dreck >>



I don't have any idea what it implies, since I said it as a joke. >>



I was making the point that a coin may not be dreck just because the slabbing company had an off day and graded it generously. I guess my point went over your head. >>

Actually, it sounds as if his joke went over your head.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>So a high end MS65 1794 silver dollar is dreck if it's in an MS66 slab? >>



Exactly Perry - now you are making sense. >>



This then implies that one man's great coin is another's dreck >>



I don't have any idea what it implies, since I said it as a joke. >>



I was making the point that a coin may not be dreck just because the slabbing company had an off day and graded it generously. I guess my point went over your head. >>

Actually, it sounds as if his joke went over your head. >>



It wouldn't be the first time.

RYK

More important than defining dreck, I think that the point is that one should try to learn what coins are considered nice and what coins are considered nasty by the market. (You can define "nasty" anyway you would like--imagine trying to sell it at a coin show and just about everyone you show it to, independent of their level of knowledge or experience, including your wife who does not collect coins, grimaces when you show it to them.)

Buy the nasty ones, if you like, if it suits your budget and collecting goals, but don't come boo-hoo-hoo'ing when you cannot get anyone else to buy it anywhere close to what you paid. This exact scenario plays out weekly here, if not more frequently.

Not all coins within the grade are the same quality. In fact, for genuinely scarce coins, often no two are the same quality. Finding the nicer ones at or near the same price as the nastier ones is far more rewarding, in many ways, than just looking at the Heritage photo, looking at the Greysheet, and dialing in your bid.

PerryHall

Is an ex-jewelry gold coin that has been heavily cleaned with graffiti considered to be dreck? What if it's an 1870-S gold $3?

RYK

<< <i>Is an ex-jewelry gold coin that has been heavily cleaned with graffiti considered to be dreck? What if it's an 1870-S gold $3? >>



Does it really matter?

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>Is an ex-jewelry gold coin that has been heavily cleaned with graffiti considered to be dreck? What if it's an 1870-S gold $3? >>



Yes and no.

Bear

In my experience, looking over the entire price spectrum of coins,

the dreaded "D" word applies to fugly, second rate coins. It should

not apply to lower grade coins that have nice even wear, no distracting

marks, gouges, scratches or holes and having a pleasing surface color to

the coin. Of course, Legend deals in Mid to high cost coins and is referring

to over graded and second rate coins in those classifications.

BaronVonBaugh

<< <i>In my experience, looking over the entire price spectrum of coins,

the dreaded "D" word applies to fugly, second rate coins. It should

not apply to lower grade coins that have nice even wear, no distracting

marks, gouges, scratches or holes and having a pleasing surface color to

the coin. Of course, Legend deals in Mid to high cost coins and is referring

to over graded and second rate coins in those classifications. >>



So, doesn't she have a responsibility for an overgraded coin to send it back to the TPG and tell
them to put it in a holder with the correct number on it at her expense so that she can get it CACd?
If she just wholesales out the overgraded coins isn't she part of the problem.

Bear

No she is not running a welfare agency. She sells coins for what they are,wholesale
and sells the quality coins to her clients retail. A smart business plan if you ask me.
Now if one has a collection of properly graded G - VG coins, then those are nice coins.
The "D" coins are damaged, over graded or doctored coins. They are ugly to look at and
will always go begging for a buyer at almost any price. If the coin happens to be extremely
rare, then allowance must be made if it is fugly.

shorecoll

There are also levels of "D", I had a low-end dealer friend who said he could sell any fugly coin as long as it had a clear date. He couldn't sell a nice low-end key if the date was half gone. To each their own.

oreville

I had a small bunch of coins, mostly 19th century $20 Libs in which I was actually able to get minor DOWNGRADE in grades (such as AU-53 to AU-50 or XF-45 to XF-40) when shifting from ANACS or NGC to PCGS or even within PCGS and the results were very pleasing.

Previously, the coins looked "drecky" or "crappy" for the assigned grade and getting lower grades in most cases had a minimal affect on the perceived price of the coin due to "price compression."

A great example of price compression is seen on the 1955DDO cent in the higher circulated grades.

northcoin

I guess Dreck is simply what wannabes dealers have in their inventory.

Steve27

Once you start thinking in terms of dreck and non-dreck, Laura's got you.

BAJJERFAN

I think most people would know it when they see it.

ocon4008

<<Is an ex-jewelry gold coin that has been heavily cleaned with graffiti considered to be dreck?>>

Would it still be dreck if you paid less than spot, or if spot for gold doubles?

roadrunner

In my take on "dreck" it includes those lower end coins for the grade that don't make the A or B categories. These are C level coins. They can be non-fugly or even at times attractive. But typically they will be coins that if regraded today will not make that same grade...and if they do....it's repeatable only occasionally. For MS or PF coins they could suffer from too many marks or hairlines, too much friction, some flecks,stains,spots or just too little or dullish mint luster or lack of reflectivity on proofs. In short, they are C coins because they lack something. And in this market that are usually valued closer to the next grade down than they are the label assigned. In short, these are coins that typically sell for large discounts. If one paid the same price as a B coin, you might have some concerns. If such a coin was downgraded it would probably give up the dreaded scarlet "D." There is nothing wrong with a C level coin. C coins can be fine. But the bottom line is they don't usually bring the money B level coins do and they usually won't earn the green bean. C coins have been around for decades. Unfortunately during heated markets they tend to bring nearly the same money as B coins. It's only during the next downturn when their glaring shortcomings rise to the surface.

To me, dreck means a coin isn't worth what the holder suggests it should be. I take the word as slang to mean such coins are not buyable to retailers except when offered at steep discounts (ie affords the opportunity to almost downgrade the coin). And that's something most sellers still aren't willing to do. Cheap coins are not dreck unless they have serious problems or are overgraded/overpriced. By their inexpensive nature, cheaper coins probably suffer far less from the effects of "D" than expensive ones do....esp at the MS/PF60+ levels. These coins often don't depend on a slabbed grade as much as more expensive coins. One could have a problem free XF Lincoln cent collection from 1940-1958 and I would not consider that Dreck. If you bought that same set from a dept store and every coin has been buffed/plated....that's Dreck!

roadrunner

Staircoins

<< <i>Once you start thinking in terms of dreck and non-dreck, Laura's got you. >>

streeter

I stopped inhaling a lot of "dreck" when I started looking at the rims first and comparing what the rims told me VS what I saw on the obverse and reverse. When the rim 'story' was different than that of the obverse/reverse......I took a lot longer to analyze the coin and ask myself---WHY?

TwoSides2aCoin

Show me the coin and I will offer you a ridiculously low price for non quality material. Now if it's really good quality, I'll need some backing to beat Laura.

PerryHall

Dreck, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

DHeath

Dreck means something different to everyone here who has collected longer than a single season. It exists within every grade and category. Some use the term to disparage grades and categories they don't traffic. They harm the hobby.

lcoopie

Einstein said,
dreck is relative.

PerryHall

<< <i>Einstein said,
dreck is relative. >>



Yup. Especially the in-laws.

telephoto1

Enjoy your coins, derive pleasure from your caretaking of them, and never allow yourself to question your own numismatic worth because of something someone else said.

The most salient thing said here thus far.