Poll: Is there room for a REAL third competitor to PCGS and NGC (World coins only)?

OchoReales

Your opinions are welcomed.

WWW

For Canadian, it's ICCS. Otherwise, there's not much room out there.

laurentyvan

Only if PCGS and NGC fail to follow up on the natural market advantage they already have as leaders in the field.

How could you allow a "new guy" to steal the marketplace?

It's all about the expertise of the grader-are there (un-discovered) experts out there
who could form a company and supplant the current top performers?

OchoReales

The question is, Is there room for a REAL competitor in the World arena? In my opinion, ICCS leaves alot to be desired. Alan Hagar, of Accugrade fame, owns ICCS. I've purchased a few ICCS and have been very disappointed. Alan also sells his own graded coins. I'm talking, REAL third party competition!

HTubbs

.

Hussulo

In the UK CGS is starting to gain a bit of a foothold, but a lot of collectors in the UK are old school and aren't sold on the idea of slabs.

WWW

The question is, Is there room for a REAL competitor in the World arena? In my opinion, ICCS leaves alot to be desired. Alan Hagar, of Accugrade fame, owns ICCS. I've purchased a few ICCS and have been very disappointed. Alan also sells his own graded coins. I'm talking, REAL third party competition!

That's odd. Alan Hagar of ACG infamy owns ICCS? Are you sure?

From a cursory Google search: Brian Cornwell is President of International Coin Certification Service, a third-party coin grading company based in Toronto.
He is a regular columnist for Canadian Coin News. Brian was a member of the core committee in the development of the RCNA Numismatic Correspondence Course.

docday2003

<< <i>The question is, Is there room for a REAL competitor in the World arena? In my opinion, ICCS leaves alot to be desired. Alan Hagar, of Accugrade fame, owns ICCS. I've purchased a few ICCS and have been very disappointed. Alan also sells his own graded coins. I'm talking, REAL third party competition!

That's odd. Alan Hagar of ACG infamy owns ICCS? Are you sure?

From a cursory Google search: Brian Cornwell is President of International Coin Certification Service, a third-party coin grading company based in Toronto.
He is a regular columnist for Canadian Coin News. Brian was a member of the core committee in the development of the RCNA Numismatic Correspondence Course. >>



You're correct that Brian Cornwell owns ICCS. Having said that, CCCS is gaining a foothold in Canada.

ajaan

Hagar DOES NOT own ICCS.

OchoReales

Bill and Don, this is what I have heard for a number of years. Sorry to make this sound like 'bona fide' info. ICCS also says it's been around since 1986. I never heard of them back then. It's ironic that Hagar/Accugrade has been around since 1984. His ebay store, Gotja Collectibles is 29 minutes away from ICCS along the MacDonald Freeway (courtesy of Google maps). Pretty coincidental, I must say. I am in the process of having someone with 'connections' verify, what is what. Maybe Brian loans his name to or runs ICCS, but my gut tells me that there is an owner in the shadows. Sort of like Frankin Mint using Jay Johnston (former Mint Director, as a front man). I'll post my findings in the next week. If I'm wrong, my up front apologies. If not, so be it. Anyway. back to my original question; Is the World market still ripe enough to support a REAL World grading contender to P and N?

OchoReales

Remember, a cursory search does NOT mean anything. Many times, there is a front man and a back room man to business ventures. Just sayin'!

satootoko

A new entombing company isn't needed, but a truly reliable attributor would be a welcome addition to the scene, especially with the increase in recent years of better and better fakery from China! I've see multiple examples of mis-attributed coins (and occasional "replicas") in both NGC and PCGS slabs.

Hyperion

it's a big world out there!

DoubleEagle59

I would be shocked if Alan Hagar owned any part of ICCS.

ICCS has a rock solid reputation for Canadian coin grading.

DoubleEagle59

Alan Hagar has been at many Canadian coin shows.

He is always talking.

I only have to be in the room to hear him from 50 feet away.

If he owns ICCS, I know he would have told everyone by now. I've heard just about everything else.

OchoReales

Tony, don't be too sure! After the Hagar v. ANA, Stuppler, et al. debacle, I'm sure that he want's to keep it quite this time! I never heard of ICCS in the late eighties or ninties and have been around much longer than that. Don, could you post some of the responses that you received from the Canadian board?

marcmoish

ok Gary come clean - did something happen with that last submission ?

Those companies mentioned above royally destroy the whole concept of true grading - ANACS is as close as you'll get in world grading that perhaps can be crossed succesfully more often then not!

That said NGC and PCGS is more then enough - especially now that NGC cleaned house and got a normal slab in place which reminds me some of us still wonder what that big anouncement is that the lite side is talkin into hundreds of posts already.


Marc

JCMhouston

CGS could have been a global competitor, but then they decided to reinvent grading for with a new 100 point system that no one else uses. Otherwise with ICCS having their niche Canadian market I really don't see room for another major service. I think the Dominion group has some decent graders but they don't seem to be getting any traction.

dizzlecc

I could see some one being successful specializing in a certain field such as Europe, Latin America, or Ancients.

It is a challenge to gain the trust and acceptance from the diverse world coin specialist. There are a lot of raw coins out with the potential for a revenue stream.

wybrit

Not within the next 3-5 years. ICCS and CGS play to niche markets. I agree with JCM's observations about CGS - a new scale that no one can translate.

DoubleEagle59

I have checked my very good sources that are close to ICCS and they are saying Alan Hager in no way shape or form has anything to do with ICCS.

I can now get a complete night's sleep.

DoubleEagle59

Spoke to Brian Cornwell (ICCS founder) himself today and he said A. Hager does not own ICCS , nor is he a part owner.

Ochoreales...what was your source of info regarding A.H. was the owner? (pm me if necessary).

canadacolornut

Thanks for going to the source and scotching that one Eagle.

I know Brian Cornwell from way bacj , and have bought several coins from Alan. And the fact that Hager rarely, if ever,
submits to ICCS should say something right there.

In fact, the vast majority of his offerings are NGC; which just results in a lot of hammer and
screwdriver work on my part; to get up a submission.