Does it make a difference WHO submits to PSA?
mexpo75
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Hi, Just wanted to know the boards opinion on whether you think that it matters whether a person who submits 4 or 5 cards a year for grading, review, or crossover, might get a different grade than someone who might send in 100's of cards a year?
PackManInNC
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I will also say, that i think their are graders that are tougher than others, so that can affect the average grades that you receive.
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i really wanna know.
For those that always say SGC is more consistent than PSA, of course they are. If SGC has one grader that grades 1980s baseball cards, of course that one person is going to be consistent. If PSA has 4 or 5 graders (which is needed due to the increased volume) of course there is going to be inconsistency.
If you took any 2 of the regular submitters on this forum and asked them to grade a stack of cards individually and the 2nd grader had no idea what grades the 1st grader assigned, I assure you that the grades will not match. A few will match but most will be different.
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Ralph
I also assume that they are instructed not to take the identity of the submitter into account whatsoever when assigning grades- because if it were ever revealed that they were instructed otherwise, it could create a buttload of legal problems.
-CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
*1956 Topps baseball- 97.4% complete, 7.24 GPA
*Clemente basic set: 85.0% complete, 7.89 GPA
<< <i>In before the monday morning POOF >>
lmao
"remember when the world blew up and we didn't tell all the stupid people?"
I don't think 100% consistency is possible, when you have several
graders cranking out 100K grades a month. Resubmitting cards is
really the only antidote.
If graders get a huge order that notes "minimum grade requirements,"
they would likely know that the cards came from a large submitter.
That does not mean the grader would be biased; just that he will be
looking only for cards that he can grade as 9s and 10s.
<< <i> Resubmitting cards is
really the only antidote.
>>
Which is time consuming and very expensive.
<< <i>I assume the graders have easy access to find out who the submitter is, if they wish to do so. >>
I doubt that
<< <i> No grading company would be any different in my opinion. >>
I would have to disagree. Less graders =more consistency = less subs = less expense.
<< <i>
<< <i> Resubmitting cards is
really the only antidote.
>>
Which is time consuming and very expensive. >>
What's so expensive about spending another $6 to turn a $20 PSA 9 into a potential $150 PSA 10?
IME, if I select 10 high-end PSA 9s that could on a good day receive 10s, I can plan on 2 of them getting the bump on the first try. Remember these are high-end 9s only. They are also cards that will sell for a pretty good premium in PSA 10 over PSA 9.
I spend an average of $6 per card for the review or $60 total.
The two that bump will typically earn me three to four times the re-sub fee.
As far as time consuming, I guess it depends on how long it takes you to fill out a submission form and package the slabs.
<< <i>
<< <i>I assume the graders have easy access to find out who the submitter is, if they wish to do so. >>
I doubt that >>
My thinking is pretty simplistic on this one:
1) the information is available in PSA's internal computer system, and it's not hard to find
2) the graders, as PSA employees, have access to said system
3) the identity of the submitter of a certain order would not be considered 'sensitive' information, therefore no need to restrict it to access levels higher than that of the graders
I might be way off base, but those are my thoughts. Care to elaborate on why you disagree?
-CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
*1956 Topps baseball- 97.4% complete, 7.24 GPA
*Clemente basic set: 85.0% complete, 7.89 GPA
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I assume the graders have easy access to find out who the submitter is, if they wish to do so. >>
I doubt that >>
My thinking is pretty simplistic on this one:
1) the information is available in PSA's internal computer system, and it's not hard to find
2) the graders, as PSA employees, have access to said system
3) the identity of the submitter of a certain order would not be considered 'sensitive' information, therefore no need to restrict it to access levels higher than that of the graders
I might be way off base, but those are my thoughts. Care to elaborate on why you disagree? >>
PSA's credibility as a TPG relies on complete anonymity of the submitters. It is NOT in the company's best interest for PSA to provide its graders access to this information, and I'd be shocked if graders had any way to see it. There is too much downside in allowing their graders to use potential bias in assigning grades.
We can speculate on the grades they give large subs vs. small subs (I've wondered that myself). We can also speculate on whether a grader even knows if a card is part of a big or small submission (or if he even cares).
But I can say with almost 100% certainty that specific submitter info is not available to graders.
that every card gets looked at by 3 different graders? That would take forever. I personally don't believe the latter is true, therefore I will agree that some graders are just harder/more experienced than others.
<< <i>
<< <i> No grading company would be any different in my opinion. >>
I would have to disagree. Less graders =more consistency = less subs = less expense. >>
I meant that in the political sense that most businesses treat certain customers differently. The ones that help them better achieve their financial goals in most industries get treated with better service. In a perfect world, all the customers are the same. But if you have a business relationship with a grading company and are spending 50K a year with them and they are treating you just like everybody else, you probably have some business meetings to discuss your relationship and if things don't improve, you and your money walk.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I assume the graders have easy access to find out who the submitter is, if they wish to do so. >>
I doubt that >>
My thinking is pretty simplistic on this one:
1) the information is available in PSA's internal computer system, and it's not hard to find
2) the graders, as PSA employees, have access to said system
3) the identity of the submitter of a certain order would not be considered 'sensitive' information, therefore no need to restrict it to access levels higher than that of the graders
I might be way off base, but those are my thoughts. Care to elaborate on why you disagree?[/
PSA's credibility as a TPG relies on complete anonymity of the submitters. It is NOT in the company's best interest for PSA to provide its graders access to this information, and I'd be shocked if graders had any way to see it. There is too much downside in allowing their graders to use potential bias in assigning grades.
We can speculate on the grades they give large subs vs. small subs (I've wondered that myself). We can also speculate on whether a grader even knows if a card is part of a big or small submission (or if he even cares).
But I can say with almost 100% certainty that specific submitter info is not available to graders. >>
BULLchit. chaz
Dear Board Members,
There has been a video and step-by-step narrative of the PSA Grading Process on our website for several years.
If you would simply watch the video or read the narrative, instead of coming to your own conclusions (which some of you have chosen to do), then you would see exactly how the process works.
This includes the fact that the graders DO NOT know the identity of the submitter as orders come through the system. In addition, their computers cannot be used to access the submitter information.
If anyone here would like to continue to post false information or insinuate things that are not true, which is often a result of a person's own ethical shortcomings, then you will be permanently banned from participating on these boards.
People are welcome to share opinions but this kind of behavior will not be tolerated here.
Sincerely,
Joe Orlando
President
CEO, Collectors Universe, Inc.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>If you would simply watch the video or read the narrative, instead of coming to your own conclusions (which some of you have chosen to do), then you would see exactly how the process works. >>
Not brown nosing any more than usual but that's what I said.
I looked for your bio on the PSA site, but didn't see it. Did you play professional hockey??? If so, are there any licensed trading cards of you?
Mike
-CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
*1956 Topps baseball- 97.4% complete, 7.24 GPA
*Clemente basic set: 85.0% complete, 7.89 GPA
<< <i>
<< <i>If you would simply watch the video or read the narrative, instead of coming to your own conclusions (which some of you have chosen to do), then you would see exactly how the process works. >>
Not brown nosing any more than usual but that's what I said. >>
Morning,
Bill takes Brown nosing to whole New Level....Just check the back of his ears !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YeeHah
Neil
<< <i>Dear Board Members,
There has been a video and step-by-step narrative of the PSA Grading Process on our website for several years.
If you would simply watch the video or read the narrative, instead of coming to your own conclusions (which some of you have chosen to do), then you would see exactly how the process works.
This includes the fact that the graders DO NOT know the identity of the submitter as orders come through the system. In addition, their computers cannot be used to access the submitter information.
If anyone here would like to continue to post false information or insinuate things that are not true, which is often a result of a person's own ethical shortcomings, then you will be permanently banned from participating on these boards.
People are welcome to share opinions but this kind of behavior will not be tolerated here.
Sincerely,
Joe Orlando
President >>
If Joe says the graders don't know, then they don't know. I believe him. chaz
<< <i>Joe,
I looked for your bio on the PSA site, but didn't see it. Did you play professional hockey??? If so, are there any licensed trading cards of you?
Mike >>
Professional Baseball. I checked Beckett.com, no cards.
Joe Orlando Career MiLB stats
Joe O PSA Bio
What I'm selling
Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
<< <i>Hi, Just wanted to know the boards opinion on whether you think that it matters whether a person who submits 4 or 5 cards a year for grading, review, or crossover, might get a different grade than someone who might send in 100's of cards a year? >>
psa is owned by collectors universe which is publicly traded.
thus if one collected cards and was also a major shareholder wouldn't it make sense that grades -especially those that are borderline- would be graded in their favor?
hence the reason i do not submit cards; only buy them.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hi, Just wanted to know the boards opinion on whether you think that it matters whether a person who submits 4 or 5 cards a year for grading, review, or crossover, might get a different grade than someone who might send in 100's of cards a year? >>
psa is owned by collectors universe which is publicly traded.
thus if one collected cards and was also a major shareholder wouldn't it make sense that grades -especially those that are borderline- would be graded in their favor?
hence the reason i do not submit cards; only buy them. >>
The Market Capitalization for CU is $81M - do you really think any big submitters are also major shareholders? And that they really are looking to nickel and dime their submissions at the expense of the company's rep (and therefore it's stability)
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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<< <i>
<< <i>Hi, Just wanted to know the boards opinion on whether you think that it matters whether a person who submits 4 or 5 cards a year for grading, review, or crossover, might get a different grade than someone who might send in 100's of cards a year? >>
psa is owned by collectors universe which is publicly traded.
thus if one collected cards and was also a major shareholder wouldn't it make sense that grades -especially those that are borderline- would be graded in their favor?
hence the reason i do not submit cards; only buy them. >>
I think this dude is trying to stir the pot but that scenario probably would be a crime along the lines of insider trading
Current obsession, all things Topps 1969 - 1972
<< <i>
<< <i>Hi, Just wanted to know the boards opinion on whether you think that it matters whether a person who submits 4 or 5 cards a year for grading, review, or crossover, might get a different grade than someone who might send in 100's of cards a year? >>
psa is owned by collectors universe which is publicly traded.
thus if one collected cards and was also a major shareholder wouldn't it make sense that grades -especially those that are borderline- would be graded in their favor?
hence the reason i do not submit cards; only buy them. >>
I own a lot of Ford stock, but they wouldn't cut me a deal on my last truck. Go figure
oh really? read the link above about NGC certification and heritage auction house and you will surely change your mind...
<< <i>http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1227/156.html
oh really? read the link above about NGC certification and heritage auction house and you will surely change your mind... >>
Looks like the FTC thinks it's a crime too, just like I said above
Current obsession, all things Topps 1969 - 1972
I for one don't submit to PSA but I will buy PSA graded cards only after CLOSE examination which should be done with anything.
I am not implying anything but when I look at some of the "big" submitters items on Ebay and compare with a "Regular Joe" submission I can see how some would question and possibly think some receive favorable grades.
The old saying holds true "buy the card and not the holder" and all the big 3 have these issues and is not only one.
<< <i>http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1227/156.html
oh really? read the link above about NGC certification and heritage auction house and you will surely change your mind... >>
The article says that NGC & PCGS do not allow graders to know details about the submitters.
This seems to prove the opposite of your point. Well done.
<< <i>I think this dude is trying to stir the pot but that scenario probably would be a crime along the lines of insider trading >>
Not if you're a member of Congress too.