Misattributed coin on ebay. Options?
notwilight
Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
I'm watching a coin on ebay that PCGS has misattributed. Unfortunately, they attributed it as a variety that is listed in the price guide as approximately twice the price of the variety
that it really is. I'd still be interested in buying the coin at the price for the proper variety.
What are my options and what are my ethical responsibilities?
--Jerry
that it really is. I'd still be interested in buying the coin at the price for the proper variety.
What are my options and what are my ethical responsibilities?
--Jerry
0
Comments
<< <i>pcgs will be forced to pay out on their guarantee either way, right?---------BigE >>
Not if they say it was a slabbing error and the collector should have known. the point of the thread is do you think the ebay dealer will deal at a lower price on his coin and I say not likely.
<< <i>pcgs will be forced to pay out on their guarantee either way, right?---------BigE >>
Nope, they consider it to be a "mechanical" error see below:
"What the PCGS Guarantee Does Not Cover
The following is further explanation of what the PCGS Guarantee does not cover.
Clerical or "mechanical" errors. PCGS occasionally makes clerical errors in inputting data which is shown on the insert in the PCGS holder; consequently the PCGS Guarantee does not cover obvious clerical errors, what we call "mechanical errors." The key concept is how obvious the error is to the naked eye. If you can easily tell just by looking at the coin that the description on the holder is wrong, then the coin/holder combination is not covered by the PCGS Guarantee. Examples would include the following:
* A date listed on the holder that does not match the date of the coin. For example, if you had a 1928 $20 St. Gaudens, but the PCGS holder showed the date as 1929 (a much more valuable coin), this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date on the coin itself is obviously 1928.
* A designation that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a 1945 Philadelphia Mercury dime and the bands on the reverse were as flat as a pancake and obviously not fully struck, but the PCGS holder showed the designation as "FB" for fully struck crossbands, this coin would not be covered the PCGS Guarantee as the crossbands are obviously not fully struck.
* Proofs shown as regular strikes and regular strikes shown as proofs. For example, if you had an obvious regular strike 1907 $2.5 gold piece, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a proof, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the difference between a regular strike and proof 1907 $2.5 is obvious.
* An obviously misidentified coin. For example, if you have a Hudson silver commemorative, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a Hawaiian silver commemorative, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as a Hudson is obviously not a Hawaiian.
* A variety attribution that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a normal date 1942 Mercury dime, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a much rarer 1942/1 overdate, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date is obviously normal. Another example would be if you had a 1945 Mercury dime with an obviously normal size mint mark, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a "Micro S." This coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee since the mint mark is obviously normal size.
* A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale."
<< <i>You are assuming the error is obvious-------BigE >>
I confirmed the misattribution using clear photos from coinfacts. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>pcgs will be forced to pay out on their guarantee either way, right?---------BigE >>
Not if they say it was a slabbing error and the collector should have known. the point of the thread is do you think the ebay dealer will deal at a lower price on his coin and I say not likely. >>
I say not likely either. Mainly because there is a high probability the seller doesn't know or care what variety it is.
He probably bought the coin based on PCGS grade determination. Can't really fault the seller on this one.
If you have no success with the seller, it helps to recruit others to also email about the misattribution.
PCGS, as indicated above, has basically no guarantee on their attribution service. The coin can be sent to PCGS for free label correction, but the shipping both ways is paid by the submitter. I have done this many times, and recently.
would you want to be out $50 and coin for 2 months?
what is the approximate value of this thing?
how long has PCGS been making this designation?
why don't you just buy it as is and then do all that stuff yourself?
<< <i>
<< <i>You are assuming the error is obvious-------BigE >>
I confirmed the misattribution using clear photos from coinfacts. --Jerry >>
Shouldn't the PCGS graders be allowed have access to coinfacts to prevent this type of misattribution?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>sending coins to PCGS takes time and money
would you want to be out $50 and coin for 2 months?
what is the approximate value of this thing?
how long has PCGS been making this designation?
why don't you just buy it as is and then do all that stuff yourself? >>
Approx value: $500
PCGS has long been making this redbook designation.
Why don't I just buy it? Because if buyers believe the label, it will sell for more than it is worth.
Right now I'm taking the Colombo approach asking him to help me attribute it--drilling down past redbook varieties to Newcomb numbers. (I've just revealed the series). I pointed out the flaws in his first attempt and am awaiting his reply. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>pcgs will be forced to pay out on their guarantee either way, right?---------BigE >>
Nope, they consider it to be a "mechanical" error see below:
"What the PCGS Guarantee Does Not Cover
The following is further explanation of what the PCGS Guarantee does not cover.
Clerical or "mechanical" errors. PCGS occasionally makes clerical errors in inputting data which is shown on the insert in the PCGS holder; consequently the PCGS Guarantee does not cover obvious clerical errors, what we call "mechanical errors." The key concept is how obvious the error is to the naked eye. If you can easily tell just by looking at the coin that the description on the holder is wrong, then the coin/holder combination is not covered by the PCGS Guarantee. Examples would include the following:
* A date listed on the holder that does not match the date of the coin. For example, if you had a 1928 $20 St. Gaudens, but the PCGS holder showed the date as 1929 (a much more valuable coin), this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date on the coin itself is obviously 1928.
* A designation that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a 1945 Philadelphia Mercury dime and the bands on the reverse were as flat as a pancake and obviously not fully struck, but the PCGS holder showed the designation as "FB" for fully struck crossbands, this coin would not be covered the PCGS Guarantee as the crossbands are obviously not fully struck.
* Proofs shown as regular strikes and regular strikes shown as proofs. For example, if you had an obvious regular strike 1907 $2.5 gold piece, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a proof, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the difference between a regular strike and proof 1907 $2.5 is obvious.
* An obviously misidentified coin. For example, if you have a Hudson silver commemorative, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a Hawaiian silver commemorative, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as a Hudson is obviously not a Hawaiian.
* A variety attribution that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a normal date 1942 Mercury dime, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a much rarer 1942/1 overdate, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date is obviously normal. Another example would be if you had a 1945 Mercury dime with an obviously normal size mint mark, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a "Micro S." This coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee since the mint mark is obviously normal size.
* A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale." >>
After reading this, I don't know whether it would be guaranteed or not. It should be obvious to a grader but not obvious to the average collector. It is a pretty easy attribution for an experienced variety student with references but even after just doing it this morning, I don't know if I could do it without references right now. --Jerry
Then he
--Jerry relisted it.
<< <i>I was more meaning to ask how I should approach the seller? >>
I would have suggested through the eBay message system prior to creating a thread.
<< <i>PCGS doesn't do overton or sheldon so this has to be a redbook variety. --Jerry >>
Wrong, they do each