Hey Dan -- is the die crack across Jefferson's face intentional? Looks like he is either split on the issue, or our current economic problems are making him cry.
<< <i>most people(including many forum members and some respondents in this thread) suffer from a grave misunderstanding when it comes to this issue by thinking that it somehow has anything to do with the Government sponsoring religion. the First Amendment, despite its many years of interpretation is very clear and simple. from MyLoftyPerch™ it seems that each time it gets reviewed it's just another attempt to explain it to US so that we can understand it correctly. the original wording often gets lost in its own simplicity.
AMENDMENT I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free excercize thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
i'd like to know how many reams of paper, how many words and how many hours of oratory chest-thumping have been directed at interpreting those 16 words. >>
Not to continually rehash a point but IMO the above Amendment is directly related to the establishment of a "National Religion", An OFFICIAL Religion of the United States IF YOU WILL, AND a specific rebuke of the official RELIGION of England, the Church of England, from which our forefathers were withdrawing from.
As for the declaration of Independence, I expect that since Thomas Jefferson made the statement:
"The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg . . . . Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error." (Ref)
that he, although raised with christian beliefs, did not endorse a "specific" god as he also refected the divinity of Christ.
Given that, I expect that if he were alive today, or at least when the motto had been place on the nation's coinage, he would have fought hard against it. For that matter, even though God is mentioned frequently in our nations "Birth Certificates", I expect that many of the countries forefathers would have rejected that motto which gives the implication that this is a Christian Country even though, as earlier stated, the title "God" can belong to many different beliefs.
Besides, how many Americans actually look at coins anyway or even know what's on the countries coinage? Given the number of Eisenhower dimes I've seen on eBay, not many. Heck, even my wife thought is was Jefferson on the Quarter!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Whether you believe in God or not, isn't all this nonsense just a waste of time and money?
On second thought, maybe they should have not had God on money in the first place - he hasn't done anything to stop the erosion of the money's value. Rather the motto should state categorically In Gold We Trust
Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
Lee, i agree that at least some of the reasoning behind the First Amendment was influenced by the things you said, but it had more to do with allowing anyone to believe as they want to believe, that includes anyone who considers themselves an athiest. Jefferson and many of the Founding Fathers were Deists and not necessarily Christian.
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issue, or our current economic problems are making him cry.
<< <i>most people(including many forum members and some respondents in this thread) suffer from a grave misunderstanding when it comes to this issue by thinking that it somehow has anything to do with the Government sponsoring religion. the First Amendment, despite its many years of interpretation is very clear and simple. from MyLoftyPerch™ it seems that each time it gets reviewed it's just another attempt to explain it to US so that we can understand it correctly. the original wording often gets lost in its own simplicity.
AMENDMENT I.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free excercize thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
i'd like to know how many reams of paper, how many words and how many hours of oratory chest-thumping have been directed at interpreting those 16 words. >>
Not to continually rehash a point but IMO the above Amendment is directly related to the establishment of a "National Religion", An OFFICIAL Religion of the United States IF YOU WILL, AND a specific rebuke of the official RELIGION of England, the Church of England, from which our forefathers were withdrawing from.
As for the declaration of Independence, I expect that since Thomas Jefferson made the statement:
"The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg . . . . Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error." (Ref)
that he, although raised with christian beliefs, did not endorse a "specific" god as he also refected the divinity of Christ.
Given that, I expect that if he were alive today, or at least when the motto had been place on the nation's coinage, he would have fought hard against it. For that matter, even though God is mentioned frequently in our nations "Birth Certificates", I expect that many of the countries forefathers would have rejected that motto which gives the implication that this is a Christian Country even though, as earlier stated, the title "God" can belong to many different beliefs.
Besides, how many Americans actually look at coins anyway or even know what's on the countries coinage? Given the number of Eisenhower dimes I've seen on eBay, not many. Heck, even my wife thought is was Jefferson on the Quarter!
The name is LEE!
On second thought, maybe they should have not had God on money in the first place - he hasn't done anything to stop the erosion of the money's value. Rather the motto should state categorically In Gold We Trust
<< <i>While I don't care one way or the other, the debater in me asks:
Would the court consider 'in Allah we Trust' as non-religious?
Doubt it. >>
Saying "In God We Trust" is not specific to any particular religion, while your statement obviously is.
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