Local Coin Club Meeting...shown an odd Lincoln Cent

ambro51

Attended the local coin club meeting last evening and was shown a rather unusual Lincoln cent.

Im not quite sure what to make of this.....the reverse appears normal, but was somewhat cupped so that it was higher in the center when rested on a countertop. What is unusal is the obverse. What appears very much to be incuse impressions of the lettering and date, shifted from the normal position on the coin. ...now dont jump to conclusions because a vise pressing with another coin would result in reverse incuse impressions!

Opinions?

ambro51

No Opinions?

Wasnt this the year the rotary press was used?

GoldenEyeNumismatics

PMD with a vice (I read the full post).

errormaven

This is a genuine error. The coin was struck through a rotated, late-stage die cap. The normally-oriented, incuse design elements are characteristic of such errors. The convex reverse puzzles me, though. Possibly the coin was damaged after it left the Mint.

CaptHenway

<< <i>This is a genuine error. The coin was struck through a rotated, late-stage die cap. The normally-oriented, incuse design elements are characteristic of such errors. The convex reverse puzzles me, though. Possibly the coin was damaged after it left the Mint. >>



I think you are right, but the warping bothers me too.
Whoever owns it should get it certified as an error.
TD

errormaven

Why certify it? If undamaged, it might be worth $50. If damaged, it would be worth a lot less.

dcarr

Here is a possible scenario for how something like that could be made:

Take a 1990 cent and put silicon rubber on it to make a mold.
After the rubber has hardened, separate it from the coin.
In the mold cavity, you will see incuse backwards letters and portrait.
Fill only the mold letters and portrait with something that will harden -
like hard epoxy.
After the epoxy hardens, sand the mold surface smooth so that the
exposed silicon rubber surface and exposed epoxy surface are all in
the same plane.
Use a vice to press the "mold" into the surface of the coin.
The silicon rubber will flex, but the hard epoxy will indent the soft
zinc cent.

ambro51

Ahhh that is interesting to know and I will see this info gets back to its owner at the next meeting. The reverse is only very very slightly domed, so as the coin rests on the center bt nearly rests on the rims, if that makes sense. its not visible to the eye. the reverse looked wonderful, very crisp easy and AU and I did notice oF was struck very fully, insteady if soft like many memorials.

On the obverse, not showing up on these quick photos I took there with a loupe and an iphone...the obverse also has a crescent shaped portion, at least 20 percent, that is lighter, and less defined, thats hear the date upper side.

errormaven

There's no sense in pursuing such an exotic and unnecessary scenario. I've seen dozens of such errors and have about a dozen in my collection.

jessecarlk

Hey all,
I'm the one who presented this to ambro (though it's not my coin). The cupping on the coin is very, very slight. Also, not really noticable in the pics, there is a depression on the obverse that matches the Lincoln Memorial that's on the reverse. I believe that this is the reason for the cupping.

ambro51

I did study the edges very very carefully. very much like any other lincoln of the era, flat edge with gently rounded to the rim, with some sides thinning a little. they looked perfect and totally undamaged. so too did the reverse, but the obverse...my pictures actually make it look Better than it did. almost like a second incuse impression of the bust shifted rotationally like Liberty incuse.

Theres no way anyone could get that degree of altertion on the obvrese impression through vise impressions, hammering dies etcetc since reverse was perfect.

any images of what that die error you mention looks like, Id like to see that.

cmerlo1

I once had a certified '70-S that looked just like yours. It sold several years ago on eBay for $75...

crazyhounddog

It looks like a real error to me...And interesting...

stinkinlincoln

I got to see this piece in hand last night as well...


I believe the coin to be a great looking man made error. In hand, somethings off about it in a major way. The rev is perfect, save for the cupping mentioned, which, I did notice by eye. While not majorly cupped, it is to some extent and noticeable.
The obv has somethings that make me think genuine error, but then the gut kicks in. The edge of the coin looks normal, but the obv upper rim does not. It almost looked like a badly cleaned Wheatie thats pitted somewhat. It didnt look real at all in this regard which is what stuck out to me. That, and Liberty is struck ok, not great, but ok for the issue. The upper obv legend is not though, its almost got a greese filled die look to it along the whole legend.

The rev while a normal looking rev doesnt match the obv to me. For a minute I thought it might have been a trick coin or something pieced together. I dont think thats what it is, but somethings going on thats telling me its a fake, just a great fake.




Whatever the case, I found it very interesting, and talking with the guys, Ray and Jesse and his friend, was a blast. We all had different opinions, but all thought it was cool.

If submitted, I hope an update or thread will happen, Im very interested in whats what with this piece.

stinkinlincoln

And for the record, I think it was a very advanced and ingenious vice job done maybe in McGyvers shop.....

ambro51

I dunno. I have a really heavy duty vise in my shop, and put two zinc lincolns face to face and really pounded on the vise handle with the 3 lb ball peen. All I managed to get were reverse impressions is part of liberty, and part of the date, nothing at all was altered on the portrait, and even so...liberty and the date were impressed backwards

we were told the coin was pulled from circulation.

Any photos anywhere on the error situation described? Maybe those of us who seen this in hand could make a comparison.

jessecarlk

When looking at this coin at the coin club, I noticed that the 'Y' of LIBERTY and the '1' in 1990 are not at all affected by the incused areas, meaning that the raised sections are "on top of" the incused images. Therefore, the incused images were on the coin before it was struck again with the correct images.

jessecarlk

pic of struck through die cap

errormaven

When a late-stage die cap becomes dislodged, rotates, and is struck into the next planchet, it produces normally-oriented incuse design elements just like those seen here. Because the effective striking pressure in the recesses of the die is less than in the field, the metal is slightly thicker there. When those thicker areas of metal are struck into a planchet, they leave shallow depressions that duplicate the shape of the recesses they once filled.

ambro51

I might be mixed up with this...and too lazy to dig out my QDB lincoln cent book...but wasnt 1990 the year they used a new rotary press design?

errormaven

<< <i>I might be mixed up with this...and too lazy to dig out my QDB lincoln cent book...but wasnt 1990 the year they used a new rotary press design? >>



The feeder mechanism has nothing to do with your error.

jessecarlk

I just tried to do several Google searches for rotary presses and came up with minimal information.

errormaven

These sorts of errors extend at least as far back as the early 1960's and as recently as 2001.