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a hypothetical situation on re-holdering. could or would this happen?

tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

...just for giggles. you have a coin that is in your possession. it is a PCGS slabbed coin that has some smears and

light scratches on it so you decide to send it back in for a nice new looking re-holder of the slab. you get a phone

call from the slabbers saying that the coin doesn't any longer get the grade it once was assigned, because of some

carbon spots that developed during the time you had it, it is now a grade lower! HOW would you deal with this? could

this happen? just wondering. keep in mind this is hypothetical and hasn't happened to me at this time, just curious.


image
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington

Comments

  • Marauderrt10Marauderrt10 Posts: 1,097 ✭
    i dont know, theres no need to reholder PCGS coins when you can repair the slabs in just a few minutes image
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭

    ....let's say you don't WANT to repair it but REALLY want the new holder? image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 47,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you send a slab in to be reholdered, I doubt if any graders even see it. Why would they? It's already been graded.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • PatchFanaticPatchFanatic Posts: 284
    I'm not sure how it works, but if it might downgrade, would the coin be eligible for a spot review?
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  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    In the extremely unlikely event that that would happen, I believe that PCGS would treat it just like you had sent the con in for a down-grade and they had agreed with you. They would likely give you the option of 1) your coin back in a lower grade holder, along with compensation for the difference in grade, or 2) no coin back, but a check for it.
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭

    ...yeah, that's part of what i'm wondering. image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    Graders don't look at a reholder. --Jerry
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Graders don't look at a reholder. --Jerry >>



    ....you don't think just MAYBE one might dwell for a second? or are you saying a different 'person' does the re-holdering

    and just ignores an obvious problem? image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • RyGuyRyGuy Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Graders don't look at a reholder. --Jerry >>



    I find this a bit weird, because recently reviewing NGC's services and fees, I read this -

    A coin with a chipped or cracked NGC holder can be submitted for placement in a new holder. Note: All ReHolders are reviewed for grade.

    I would think PCGS follows suit, as well.
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Graders don't look at a reholder. --Jerry >>



    I find this a bit weird, because recently reviewing NGC's services and fees, I read this -

    A coin with a chipped or cracked NGC holder can be submitted for placement in a new holder. Note: All ReHolders are reviewed for grade.

    I would think PCGS follows suit, as well. >>




    ....hmmmm. image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Graders don't look at a reholder. --Jerry >>


    I am virtually certain that HRH has confirmed this here in the past.

    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • soty27soty27 Posts: 1,956
    Pcgs graders DO NOT look at reholders. The only time pcgs would down grade any coin would be under grade review.
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Pcgs graders DO NOT look at reholders. The only time pcgs would down grade any coin would be under grade review. >>

    I believe that on rare occasions there might be a question as to whether a holder has been tampered with. In that event, my guess is that a PCGS grader would examine the coin.
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭

    ....so if a re-holder guy sees a big ol' carbon spot and sees it says PCGS-67 and because it's not his business, he wouldn't

    bother jim the grader in the next room and say HEY JIM! LOOK AT THIS!? and then everything cuts loose? this scenario

    is not going to happen? i'd think a fuss should be made with someone. especially if nothing is said and the coin goes back

    to the owner and he shows it off to a friend and says "you wanna buy it?" and the friend says HOW DID THAT make THAT

    grade with the spot? image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>....so if a re-holder guy sees a big ol' carbon spot and sees it says PCGS-67 and because it's not his business, he wouldn't

    bother jim the grader in the next room and say HEY JIM! LOOK AT THIS!? and then everything cuts loose? this scenario

    is not going to happen? i'd think a fuss should be made with someone. especially if nothing is said and the coin goes back

    to the owner and he shows it off to a friend and says "you wanna buy it?" and the friend says HOW DID THAT make THAT

    grade with the spot? image >>


    How is this scenario any different than any one with a coin that is overgraded and/or has turned in the holder?
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • dogwooddogwood Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
    IF it reholdered lower, exception being an environmental issue in-situ, then everything the TPG has stood for over the last 25 years is rendered obsolete, and they are reduced to a mere encasing company.


    image
    We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭

    ....what i'm saying is the coin wasn't sent in for a spot. it was sent in to be re-holdered because the plastic was all

    smudged up and not a re-grade intentionally. and wondered how it would work. and this is hypothetical anyway. image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    they need to bring back the Q&A Foruma nd someone needs to archive all the important answers.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i suggest that one of us takes a not-to-valuable coin and drills a hole through it. send it in under the re-holder option and we'll know pretty quick whether or not a grader looks at it.
  • TomBTomB Posts: 22,341 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>i suggest that one of us takes a not-to-valuable coin and drills a hole through it. send it in under the re-holder option and we'll know pretty quick whether or not a grader looks at it. >>


    I would imagine there is a protocol for reholdering coins that are in scuffed up or otherwise non-pristine holders vs. reholdering coins where the integrity of the holder has been compromised. Regarding the first hypothetical; it is my understanding that a typical reholder is not given to graders to examine, but is simply reholdered and returned.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • SpiffSpiff Posts: 102


    << <i>Graders don't look at a reholder. --Jerry >>



    Exactly.. If your sending it in only to be reslabbed then the coin will only be reslabbed and NOT regraded. They would only change the grade if needed only if you paid for a regrading. The price for a reslab and regrading are huge and that alone should answer your question..
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Graders don't look at a reholder. --Jerry >>



    Exactly.. If your sending it in only to be reslabbed then the coin will only be reslabbed and NOT regraded. They would only change the grade if needed only if you paid for a regrading. The price for a reslab and regrading are huge and that alone should answer your question.. >>

    In the vast majority of cases, that is correct. However, as I mentioned previously, if the slab shows evidence of tampering, things are different. It can happen and it has happened.
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Graders don't look at a reholder. --Jerry >>

    Exactly.. If your sending it in only to be reslabbed then the coin will only be reslabbed and NOT regraded. They would only change the grade if needed only if you paid for a regrading. The price for a reslab and regrading are huge and that alone should answer your question.. >>

    In most the vast majority of cases, that is correct. However, as I mentioned previously, if the slab shows evidence of tampering, things are different. It can happen and it has happened. >>



    And I assume there must be some checks in place for fake slabs.--Jerry
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And I assume there must be some checks in place for fake slabs.--Jerry

    Jerry, that would be the ultimate scam and the reason why the coins should be looked at by a grader. imagine a counterfiet coin in a counterfiet slab getting reholdered!!! that could prove very embarrassing.
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    << <i>i suggest that one of us takes a not-to-valuable coin and drills a hole through it. send it in under the re-holder option and we'll know pretty quick whether or not a grader looks at it. >>




    ....indeed! image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington

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