Reasons why I hope the new 100 point grading scale never happens....

DoubleEagle59

Basically, I have two reasons why I hope this never happens:

1) I just think it's a flat out BAD idea.
The best way I can compare this to, is back in 1985 when the Coca-Cola company scrapped its world popular Coke formula for the 'New Coke' formula. All the bigwig execs thought it was the best idea they had in 50 years. Well, as everyone knows it was a major marketing disaster and Coca-Cola had to withdraw its new formula and bring back the original Coke formula (called 'Coke Classic'). I somehow feel this will replay with the 100 point grading scale.

2) it will be so very difficult to adjust to the new scale without referring back to the Old scale.
Again, I can best describe this with another analogy. Here in Canada, in the 1970's we as a country switched to the metric system. At the time, I was in late public school or early High school. You know, to this day, I still can't automatically know the temperature in Celsius. I have to convert it to Farenheit. I 'know' what 70 degrees F feels like. I don't know what 15 degrees C feels like. Compound this with the fact that the average age of coin collectors is probably around 45 to 55, it's going to be even tougher to adjust. You're going to get a lot of old stubborn mules (perhaps 'middle-aged') not 'automatically' knowing what their coin is graded. Basically, a mountain load of frustration will unfold.

PerryHall

If one of the major TPG's goes to a 100 point scale and the other doesn't, guess which one will gain a lot of business at the expense of the other company.

keets

Perry, an answer to you question is only a "guess" since a compelling arguement can be made for either of the choices. in the end, i think that if a change is made by either PCGS or NGC regarding a 100 point grading scale that the ultimate decision will be made by collectors/dealers over a long period of time. it's no slam-dunk in either direction, despite what a few members of a small internet chatroom think.

keets

Tony, it was so difficult getting used to the notion of unleaded gasoline that when it first happened...................

attention-----please see my reply to the "Wizard of OZ" thread.

RTS

I must be of a quite small minority that could not care less if the grading scale is 1 point, 100 points or a scale made up of the set of irrational numbers
or more appropriate the imaginary numbers i...though I hope PCGS does go to a 100 point scale just for the drama.

RWB

100 points of opinion have no advantage over 70 points of opinion.

keets

could not care less

one thing is for sure, you're in the minority of people who get the saying right!!! as for the 100 point system, it is nothing more than a plan to increase the sale price and marketability of a coin since it will differentiate them further(or is it farther, i get confused sometimes!!). it the same as all the other things that get added to an insert and up the price.

Blackborder

Time to move into the decimal world.

1-9 Poor, likely grades in that range, 1, 5

10-19 AG, likely grades in that range, 10, 15

20-29 G, likely grades in that range, 20, 25

30-39 VG, likely grades in that range, 30, 35

40-49 F, likely grades in that range, 40, 45

50-59 VF, likely grades in that range, 50, 55, 58

60-69 XF, likely grades in that range, 60, 65, 68

70-79 AU, likely grades in that range, 70, 75, 78

80-100 MS, likely grades in that range, all of them

rld14

What on earth would a 100 point system accomplish? We only use 35 out of the 70 points now.

Blackborder

<< <i>What on earth would a 100 point system accomplish? We only use 35 out of the 70 points now. >>



It accomplishes the same thing PQ, bean stickers, and stars accomplish.

PerryHall

A poll concerning the 100 pt scale verses the status quo would be interesting. I can pretty well guess the results.

keets

this topic was widely discussed here to the point of PCGS holding a "roundtable discussion" with several noted Numismatists at the FUN Show luncheon, i believe it was in January of 2007. i'm sure it's in the archives somewhere.

johnny9434

Dont mess whats already not broke

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>What on earth would a 100 point system accomplish? We only use 35 out of the 70 points now. >>



I count 30.

SeaEagleCoins

<< <i>

<< <i>What on earth would a 100 point system accomplish? We only use 35 out of the 70 points now. >>



I count 30. >>



(and you already edited it?)

slow day at the office, I take it?


edited to add... now tell the truth... did you use your fingers to count them or did you use paper and pen?

relicsncoins

If there was any change to be made, I think adding a decimal scale to the mint state grades would be the only change worth considering.

BaseballAbs

I agree with Keets. I also say bring it on, if it seems not to work we will just go back to the old way. We know it, it works well enough and i agree that a few people at PCGS or NGC are not going to make it stick if the rest of us don't like it. ANACS could end up going back to being the top dog i guess. That is to say if they do try the New Coke idea and it taste like crap.

renomedphys

Switching to a 100 point scale has to be the dumbest idea anyone has ever come up with. Just dumb. Flat out stupid. The 70 point scale is wholly ingrained into the collector psyche, just like the notions of G-VF-AU. Moreso, the numerical grade is a qualifier of the old letter based scale. When you want to describe a group of coins, you may refer to them as a grouping of VF examples, but when you talk about a specific coin's merits, you don't just say VF, you say VF-30, you don't say MS, you say MS-65. Plus, some of these numbers are benchmarks. Numbers like 4, 12, 30, 45, 65. Switching to a 100 point scale would toss out the window the meaningfulness of these numbers that have served the collector's society well for decades.

I think that if such a change were made, it would have such an infuriatingly confusing effect on the psyche of collectors that you would see a stark decline in coin collecting as a whole. I honestly don't know if I would be able to hang on through such a change.

Not to mention, what are the TPG going to do? Re-holder 10-million coins?

mommam17

PLEASE, do not go to the 100 point grading system. THANK YOU!!

PerryHall

<< <i>Switching to a 100 point scale has to be the dumbest idea anyone has ever come up with. Just dumb. Flat out stupid. The 70 point scale is wholly ingrained into the collector psyche, just like the notions of G-VF-AU. Moreso, the numerical grade is a qualifier of the old letter based scale. When you want to describe a group of coins, you may refer to them as a grouping of VF examples, but when you talk about a specific coin's merits, you don't just say VF, you say VF-30, you don't say MS, you say MS-65. Plus, some of these numbers are benchmarks. Numbers like 4, 12, 30, 45, 65. Switching to a 100 point scale would toss out the window the meaningfulness of these numbers that have served the collector's society well for decades.

I think that if such a change were made, it would have such an infuriatingly confusing effect on the psyche of collectors that you would see a stark decline in coin collecting as a whole. I honestly don't know if I would be able to hang on through such a change.

Not to mention, what are the TPG going to do? Re-holder 10-million coins? >>



Great post and I totally agree.

Unknown

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19Lyds

I would not support a 100 point scale but I would support a decimal augmentation to the current scale.

Not alone the lines of 64.1, .2, .3, etc. but for specific values indicating low mediom or high for the grade. Folks already use this any way otherwise PQ would not have any value and CAC would be relagated to only Gold stickers.

64.2 = Good for the grade.

64.5 = Better than average for the grade.

64.8 = Above average for the grade.

renomedphys

This is a duplicate rant post from another thread on this subject, so I apologize if you've read it twice. I'll edit out all the politically incorrect stuff, as I've cooled down a bit...

Another (developmentally challenged) idea. Let's just take the fun out of collecting and grading by whittling a coin's merits down to a tiny point on a huge scale. No more, "hey, this 65 is better than that one". Just read the number, it tells all. BUT WAIT! Here's two MS-65.4's. Which one do you like better? Oh! but they would HAVE to be the same. How could you possibly like one more than the other?

Wait! I have an equally (developmentally challenged) idea! Why don't we just have a giant condition census comprising the entire mintage of a specific coin? That way, there would never be any confusion about which coin is actually better. Instead of grades, we would have 1, 2, 3, all the way down to 72 million.

Obviously you guys are worried too much that we need more regulation, which is supposed to do what? Ensure that everybody agrees on a grade, or a coin's worthiness? Coin grading is subjective. That means inherently that people are supposed to disagree. DUH! That's one of the wonderful things that makes this a great hobby.

Rant over.

keets

Switching to a 100 point scale has to be the dumbest idea anyone has ever come up with. Just dumb. Flat out stupid. The 70 point scale is wholly ingrained into the collector psyche, just like the notions of G-VF-AU. Moreso, the numerical grade is a qualifier of the old letter based scale. When you want to describe a group of coins, you may refer to them as a grouping of VF examples, but when you talk about a specific coin's merits, you don't just say VF, you say VF-30, you don't say MS, you say MS-65. Plus, some of these numbers are benchmarks. Numbers like 4, 12, 30, 45, 65. Switching to a 100 point scale would toss out the window the meaningfulness of these numbers that have served the collector's society well for decades.

I think that if such a change were made, it would have such an infuriatingly confusing effect on the psyche of collectors that you would see a stark decline in coin collecting as a whole. I honestly don't know if I would be able to hang on through such a change.

Not to mention, what are the TPG going to do? Re-holder 10-million coins?

this is a post which contains two relevant, if not overstated, thoughts which are related. let us consider those two points:
1. Switching to a 100 point scale has to be the dumbest idea anyone has ever come up with. Just dumb. Flat out stupid.
-----this is entirely the collector(s) point of view. seen from a dealer(s) point of view it is a very good idea; it means that there is a wider range of marketing which can take place.
2. Not to mention, what are the TPG going to do? Re-holder 10-million coins?
-----again, this is entirely the collector(s) point of view. seen from the offices of PCGS it makes sense, or should i say $$ and cents!!! you would expect them to re-holder the coins for free?? at even $10 each for a re-holder(and i would remind you that it would actually be a REGRADE) the total is $100 million. i consider that very smart from the PCGS point of view. you are right about the stupid part, though, you'd have to be stupid to have them regrade, er, re-holder your coins.

droopyd

<< <i>The best way I can compare this to, is back in 1985 when the Coca-Cola company scrapped its world popular Coke formula for the 'New Coke' formula. All the bigwig execs thought it was the best idea they had in 50 years. Well, as everyone knows it was a major marketing disaster and Coca-Cola had to withdraw its new formula and bring back the original Coke formula (called 'Coke Classic'). >>



The entire New Coke/Coke Classic switch was a carefully orchestrated ploy whereby they could replace cane sugar in the "Old Coke" with high fructose corn syrup in the "Coke Classic" and then manufacture increased demand for the reformulated "Classic" product.

notwilight

I don't like it becaue there would be 10,000 posts here along the lines of, "Look at this scumbag seller tying to foist off a new XF 65 graded _______ as an MS65"

Then there will be 20,000 responses, "Maybe he is an honest seller and he didn't know the difference."

And then the required, "Of course he knew, he's an ebay scumbag. Look at all the fakes he has for sale."

followed by, "How do you know they are fakes"

"Of course they're fakes"

"Maybe he didn't know they were fakes".

"of course he did, he's a scumbag ebay seller."

"Based on those pictures I cannot tell if they are fakes or real."

"His feedback seems to indicate that they are real."

So are you getting tired of reading this already?

--Jerry

shorecoll

I'm still getting over switching from my Beistle numbers to Overton's and Maris numbers to Sheldon. I'll say it like I said then, don't change, it'll never work.