**Fraud Alert: Counterfeit '74 fb wax box coming out of Harrisburg, PA with new seller ID!

summerof68

For all intents and purposes I have quit the sportscard hobby and switched back to coins. However just for the heck of it I looked over todays vintage pack listings on ebay and came across a 1974 Topps football full wax box from a seller (derek9308) out of the notorious pack counterfeiting city of Harrisburg, PA.

Immediately I noticed all the characteristics of the photography in the listing is identical to that of notorious pack counterfeiter (Pastoney) who was kicked off ebay but is still using one of his many alias ID's (codyemma17) to buy the wrappers, cards, empty boxes and gum necessary to construct his bogus packs.

Below I will give you the picture of the full '74 fb wax box currently being sold on ebay by (derek9308) and I will follow with pictures taken from the actual ebay listings recently won by (codyemma17) in which he won the wrappers, singles, and empty wax box necessary to construct this '74 full wax box.

Ebay listing: 400103959349


50 '74 fb wrappers recently won by (codyemma17). Ebay listing:200410726912



Group of high-grade '74 singles recently won by (codyemma17). Ebay listing: 150393934655



'74 Topps fb empty wax box recently won by (codyemma17). Ebay listing: 200413453905



Bottom line: exercise extreme caution when buying unopened vintage material coming out of the Harrisburg, PA area!

stevek

You're right - the paoutdoorsman2004 pics always have that same look. Hard to believe this arch criminal isn't serving some long prison time in a PA state pen by now.

nightcrawler729

Thanks yet again for your detective work. We need you to re-join the hobby just to nail these guys.

Dboneesq

Summer ... you can quit the hobby if you want ... BUT ... you must promise us that you will still police the unopened market and report back to us ... OK?????

summerof68

For those interested the principal source used by pack counterfeiters for authentic vintage '70's era Topps gum comes in the form of 1979 Topps NASL soccer stickers wax boxes.

These wax boxes are virtually worthless and can be won on ebay for around $8 and they will yield (36) authentic pieces of late '70's era Topps gum. Whenever they sell they are almost always purchased by known counterfeiters. (codyemma17) routinely wins these soccer wax boxes and he uses the gum for the purpose of counterfeiting packs.

Below is a picture of a such a wax box (codyemma17) recently won on ebay: listing# 300373647507



The gum used to create the (24) '74 fb wax packs came from a box like that above.

Stone193

I thought for a second the ID's were the same.

I don't think I'd buy this kind of stuff at all - except for a select few.

stevek

<< <i>For those interested the principal source used by pack counterfeiters for authentic vintage '70's era Topps gum comes in the form of 1979 Topps NASL soccer stickers wax boxes.

These wax boxes are virtually worthless and can be won on ebay for around $8 and they will yield (36) authentic pieces of late '70's era Topps gum. When ever they sell they are almost always purchased by known counterfeiters. (codyemma17) routinely wins these soccer wax boxes and he uses the gum solely for counterfeiting packs.

Below is a picture of a such a wax box (codyemma17) recently won on ebay: listing# 300373647507



The gum used to create the (24) '74 fb wax packs came from a box as that above. >>



Good info!

jmmiller777

Good job, hope these scum bags get beat at their own game. I say we all bid them up to $500 and then no one pays, let eat some ebay fees!

storm888

Olbermann got burned too. Got his money back.

.................

CAVEAT EMPTOR


Fell victim to myself - and was contacted by a bunch of other suckers - to an eBay scam that, while clearly focused to rip off specialists in a very small branch of baseball memorabilia collecting - serves as a reminder to think carefully about the ingenuity people can muster while pursuing the proverbial ill-gotten gains.


To eBay's credit, in my case at least, it and PayPal refunded my money, even as the seller claimed he was the victim, and smeared, and all the like. The ID was "tarheels17032" and the man, a Randy Howard operating out of a post office box in suburban Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, put up for bid a "box" of vintage 1971 O-Pee-Chee baseball cards (the Canadian version of Topps). The illustration showed the retail box, and in it, 36 seemingly unopened packs in good shape. Upon arrival, I couldn't resist opening a pack.


I was surprised, initially, as to how easy that was. The packages were barely sealed. As a kid, I actually opened packages of these cards when they originally came out, and they were stuck together for the long haul. But the biggest surprise awaited inside. The cards had clearly not spent the last 39 years in those packages. Some had creases and seriously stubbed corners, others didn't. At least two cards that were not directly facing the gum in the packs, nevertheless had damage from having had gum stuck to them. The packages were in better condition than the cards - a physical impossibility if the packs had been unopened.


Unless we were dealing with cards granted the ability of locomotion, which had escaped their packs and managed to somehow injure themselves, then return home like salmon swimming back to spawn, there was something seriously amiss here.


Mr. Howard at first agreed to "take a look" at the cards if I wanted to return them to him. He then refused delivery at the post office in Dauphin, Pa. When I filed a complaint with eBay, he wrote: "First of all, please re-read my description. No where do I EVER describe in any of my auctions that something is 'unopened.' I'm not the original owner nor do I profess to be. I specifically state in my auctions to ask any questions prior to end of auction. I also state that all items are sold as is..."


As the complaint moved through eBay, he later posted that I had tampered with the packages. Needless to say, the eBay folks did not exactly buy that (since I had a registered mail receipt marked "refused" - he could not have seen the packages). Nor did they buy the 'I never explicitly said these were unopened packs' defense.


My travails with memorabilia sellers are not your concern. But when several other collectors advised me that there were several instances of this exact kind of rip-off involving supposedly unopened packs, I thought it merited mention here. The story as I understand it is that either two people working in cahoots, or one using two different eBay ID's, buy up old empty card boxes, and empty wrappers that match the boxes. Lord knows where they get the gum, but they fill the "packs" with off-condition common cards, seal them just closed enough, then stick them in the empty box, and make big money selling not vintage unopened packs or boxes, but garbage.


Once eBay returned my money I thought it would be fascinating to open up Mr. Howard's packs to see what was inside. Not one of the packs didn't include something impossible. Several packs included not 1971 O-Pee-Chee cards (yellow backs), but ordinary 1971 Topps (green backs). The O-Pee-Chee cards were issued in series that year, so all the cards in each pack should have been restricted to Series One, Series Two, or Series Three, etc. But many were intermixed between the series. Topps and O-Pee-Chee made their money on making sure kids had to keep buying to get a full set, so they had state-of-the-art "randomizing" processes to be certain there were lots of doubles in a box and never anything like a run of cards in numerical sequence in a given pack. Nevertheless, nearly all the packs came out that way (one produced numbers 234, 235, 238, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244). And virtually every card in the box was a "common" - no stars, no rare cards.


KO story

storm888

Yo summer.........

Can you please turn on your PM ?

summerof68

I'd like to offer positive proof that (derek9308) and (codyemma17) are the same person. (derek9308) also has a '76/'77 Topps basketball (full) wax box currently on ebay. It is listing# 400103959747. See below:



And just by coincidence (codyemma17) recently won a '76/'77 Topps (empty) basketball wax box. Ebay listing# 200413455778. See below:



Take a close look at that horizontal crease in the upper left of both boxes. Both creases are exactly the same in shape, size and location.

Also look at that small, white area of paper loss above and to the left of the (1) in 15 cents. Boths spots of paper loss are in the identical location and both are identical in shape and size.

And lastly look at the large tear in the bottom edge of the box just below the left facing arm of the Bullits player. Both tears are in the exact same location.

Both boxes are indeed the same giving us positive proof that ebayers (derek9308) and (codyemma17) are either the same person or persons working together to commit this fraud.

Blacklabelsociety

Never buy unopened pre-1980 packs/boxes on ebay.

1960toppsguy

WOW, that's really uncool, what a tool.

minnesotahusker

Great job as always Summer.

I wonder what he does with all the soccer sticker? Does he throw them away? Does he have a ton of sets of them? I might be interested in them!!!

You know what would rock, is if someone who was selling these soccer wax boxes, would open up the packs, take out the gum and reseal the packs before shipping them to him.

bking

I doubt it will ever happen, but I really think Ebay should ban sales of wrappers. Aside from the occasional collector wanting a single show item to display, I can't think of a legitimate reason for wrappers to be sold, especially in lots. I personally think the ones selling these lots bear some responsibility for the impact on the hobby too. It's not like they are making much off them anyway.

Weak analogy, but would they permit selling raw currency stock?

Blackborder

<< <i>I doubt it will ever happen, but I really think Ebay should ban sales of wrappers. Aside from the occasional collector wanting a single show item to display, I can't think of a legitimate reason for wrappers to be sold, especially in lots. I personally think the ones selling these lots bear some responsibility for the impact on the hobby too. It's not like they are making much off them anyway.

Weak analogy, but would they permit selling raw currency stock? >>




I disagree. That seems to be the approach we always take to crime - Impose limits on law abiding citizens. Everyone reacts that way instinctively now it seems.

The real solution is to make the punishments for crime so severe that it has a deterrent effect.

Maybe when they start cutting off a few fingers, or bringing back multiple years of chain gang labor for theft such as this, then we'll see the problem diminish.

Until society has the guts to start punishing the criminals, we will continue to see restrictions on law abiding citizens in the name of "crime prevention".

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>I doubt it will ever happen, but I really think Ebay should ban sales of wrappers. Aside from the occasional collector wanting a single show item to display, I can't think of a legitimate reason for wrappers to be sold, especially in lots. I personally think the ones selling these lots bear some responsibility for the impact on the hobby too. It's not like they are making much off them anyway.

Weak analogy, but would they permit selling raw currency stock? >>




I disagree. That seems to be the approach we always take to crime - Impose limits on law abiding citizens. Everyone reacts that way instinctively now it seems.

The real solution is to make the punishments for crime so severe that it has a deterrent effect.

Maybe when they start cutting off a few fingers, or bringing back multiple years of chain gang labor for theft such as this, then we'll see the problem diminish.

Until society has the guts to start punishing the criminals, we will continue to see restrictions on law abiding citizens in the name of "crime prevention". >>



Personally, I think THAT is the instinctive reaction. Study after study have proven beyond dispute that severity of punishment does nothing without certainty of getting caught. The only reason severe punishments were ever effective is when people feared that they could be caught and punished in a heartbeat.

I'm simply being pragmatic - we can't easily change the mindset of those that commit many crimes, but we CAN easily impact the cost/benefit and ease of doing the deed. Add we can do so without imposing any significant restrictions. We already impose restrictions on all sorts of legal "precursor" activities that directly impact criminal behavior.

msassin

<< <i> The ID was "tarheels17032" and the man, a Randy Howard operating out of a post office box in suburban Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, put up for bid a "box" of vintage 1971 O-Pee-Chee baseball cards (the Canadian version of Topps). >>



The seller ID's may be new, but the resealers sure aren't. Howard was booted off eBay years ago for selling Hooper's counterfit Bazooka/ Bond Bread / etc. that were grade FGS/FGA

Hooper has a sports card auction in Hagerstown, MD this weekend so there will be plenty of bad stuff on both sides of me (I live about 30-40 minutes from each).