How much does a stain affect the grade?

Morgoth

Not trying to bash here but to me this card looks like it has a pretty sizable stain or water damage. It is clear on front and back of the card. You have to enlarge the scan to see it. Its on the top border.

What should this card grade with a stain like that. To me it shouldn't be over a 6. What do you guys think?

1955 Mays PSA 7.5

bigjaco

I recently returned an 8 with a pretty awful wax stain on the back, way worse then the one pictured by the OP. I'm totally at a lost when it comes to impact on the grades as i'd agree wax or water stain should be a pretty substainal reduction.

but i have a lot to learn as here's two pretty high grade cards with stains.

Nathaniel1960

WOW!!! I have never seen something with a stain like that grade at 7.5. I've got a stack of sweet 55's myself with some similar stains that I never even considered subbing. Two issues I have with that card. #1, there should be an ST qualifier. #2, it shouldn't be a 7.5 even w/o the ST. If the person subbed it with no quals, I just don't know what to think.

cpettimd

wow ! and they gave it a 7.5 which is supposed to be higher end of the grade. The water stain is right through the card. I would not personally bid on that card.

bigjaco

here's the PSA 8 I was speaking of.

cpettimd

One specific example (that I know of) where stains are acceptable in higher grades, is the 55 bowmans, where alot of them have back wax stains.

Morgoth

I actually didn't really notice it and had it on my watch list for days. I just hit enlarge and finally saw it. I definately can't bid on it as it would draw my eyes everytime I looked at it.

Morgoth

52 Bowmans and I think 51s if they are mild are ok due to the fact I think there was only 1 or 2 cards per pack.

bigjaco

I guess I still don't understand how the card grades vary by year... so a stain is more tollerated on a 50's bowman.. why? shouldn't that make the non stained 7s and 8s more valuable and more rare? doesn't make sense.

Morgoth

Its because a vast majority of the cards don't exist without stains in those years and sets. If 75% of the cards are produced that way than it is so common that collectors over the years have basically overlooked the stains unless they are severe. Actually lightly stained 52s sell for about the same as unstained so in reality there is no real mark up value anyway.

For other years were you had wax with stains you also had vending, racks and cellos that did not have stains. Also with more cards per pack the percentage of wax stained cards out of wax started to get lower every year. Pretty soon only 5 to 10% of the cards printed had stains and therefore are the anomally not the norm

WinPitcher

Bj's card is a 54 Bowman and for the reason mentioned, cards sold 1 to a pack many have the ST and PSA over looks it.

It's terrible when the seller makes no mention of it.

and fwiw PSA does not issue ST qualifiers for water stains.

Some cards (cracker Jacks) for example generally do not get them too.






<< <i> shouldn't that make the non stained 7s and 8s more valuable >>




Yes it does, I'll bid higher on 52 Bowmans that have clean backs.

WinPitcher

Where exactly is the Stain on the Mays?


Steve

bigjaco

Stain on the Mays as indicated by OP is at the top of the card.

As for the year indicating ok for stains etc. I completely understand why it makes sense but would grading standards be grading standards. Shouldn't an 8 be an 8 regardless of year?

I recently undertook the '48/49 Leaf baseball set and already am noticing so much lattitude with grading. MC/OC doesn't appear to exist in the leaf world, spotting, fading, coloring same thing. I have often sent in very mixed bag submissions to PSA --- mid 70s cards and tobacco cards where I never thought the grades matched up.

Thou buying teh card and not the grade means the centered and pure colored ones go crazy on the block, begs the question how the same grades get applied to very different visibly cards. The Campy I linked above I'd be pissed if I had spent $75 for much less a PSA 8 price. Thankfully the seller was more than happy to fully refund and apologized.

If in fact there are different accepted faults for different years I do think it would be poor move to send in highly varied submissions by year. Get a 75 topps guy grading some of my leaf submissions and I'm getting all 2s. Get a leaf guy grading my 75 Topps and I'm locked in to the 9s. Granted I'm still very new to grading but I would think grading standards are standards, simple. Yes I understand my PSA 7 1989 Upper Deck cards would be 9s in 1975 Topps and similarly 10s in earlier years... just woudl be simpler for us more mathmatically minded people.

Morgoth

Well we all thought that at one time and so did BGS. However as grading matured I think peopled realized you had to grade the sets with some nod to the production problems of the times. You can't compare the sharpness of corners or printing defects of a card made today versus the 20s, 30s or 40s. To me you have to figure out what was the best condition possible for that particular set and go from there. I think that is why some sets have some more variation in certain defects versus other years.

SidePocket

That's a shame, that is one of the nicest 55 Topps Mays I've seen.

WinPitcher

Sorry I still do not see a stain on the Mays.

I see some toning of the paper on the back.


As for cards being graded by era, I personally do not agree with it but my opinion carries lil or no weight

in the market place. PSA's carries the weight. Lets take the 54 Campanella as an example.

The one shown is graded by PSA as an 8. Lets say two different sellers have this card, one has the card shown another has

one that has a clean back. Both cards are the same on the front. Both cards are graded 8. Which one do you think

would sell for a higher price? The one with the clean back.


Just like market acceptable 10's that we have seen the old saying buy the card not the holder rings loud here.

Steve

WinPitcher

Ahhh I think I do see it, but it is not on the top of the card it is on the side, what would be the right side.

ok gotcha. hmmmm not sure what to make of that.


Steve

Morgoth

I meant top of the card the way it was positioned in the photo. Its pretty big for a card graded so high.