1969 Topps
mikeschmidt
Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
Wow -- $600 BIN
I am a Jim Bunning fan and all -- but a $600 BIN on a card with a huge and noticeable print spot is not my game. Anyway -- 1969 is not my expertise, but I thought I would look to hear other input from others on this. Sure, the population is low -- but is it worth a huge multiple over an 8 with a spot like that?
I am a Jim Bunning fan and all -- but a $600 BIN on a card with a huge and noticeable print spot is not my game. Anyway -- 1969 is not my expertise, but I thought I would look to hear other input from others on this. Sure, the population is low -- but is it worth a huge multiple over an 8 with a spot like that?
I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
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Comments
Outrageous to pay it? Of course. Might the seller find a buyer? You never know!
Card is out of my league anyhoot. Maybe Mitochondria is out there to lend a fresh perspective.
RayB69Topps
Hey -- won't say I won't do it myself. I've seen some 1963 Fleer PSA 9 cards go for HUGE $$$ lately, so I was thinking of putting up a few Phillies I have from that year with $500 reserves. The last few auctions I tracked saw prices go from $200+ to $600+ in the last minute of the auction.
MS
Again, I was not criticizing your auction. I was only looking for comment. I do not follow the set enough to know about the nuances of how the low pop star 9's sell. The print dot/cloud that I was referring to is the big white one under the word "Pitcher" in the upper right circle. A white cloud on a magenta background sticks out fairly noticeably, it seems.
The card does seem to be centered fairly well by 1969 Topps standards. Good luck with your auction.
Respectfully
RayB69Topps
Wayne
To quote you:
<< <i> "I just really love people who have stuff to say about items that they don't own." >>
With all due respect Bob, I own the other 1969 Bunning PSA 9 card. I never complained, bribed or threatened PSA about giving it a 9. I submitted it to PSA myself with 99 other cards this past January through the mail in raw form and it came back a 9. There was zero dialogue between anyone at PSA and myself regarding this card or any card I ever submitted to PSA. The card made the grade on its own merits and is very worthy of PSA 9. Both cards can be seen below. Mine has 4 very pristine corners and no print marks. I'll forgive and forget this ever happened if you are willing to make me a good deal on that '73 Sparky Anderson PSA 9 card. You know where to reach me. Have a great day.
Your absolutely right and I apologize. I was told from what I thought was a reliable source that the second Bunning was in an 8 and cracked out and made 9. Mine was the only 9 for quite sometime. I purchased it and 3 days later yours hit the POP report. It was quite a surprise. Again accept my apology and I'll start following my own advice.
Bob
It actually was cracked out, which to me is not the same as "it was whined to a 9" which to me can be construed as I called PSA and complained and negotiated a higher grade - which I don't believe in doing.
It's a long story, but I truly believe I was victimized the first time I submitted it. In 1999, I knew a local dealer that had 7000 - 1968 vending commons and 5000 - 1969 vending commons. The stars were pulled years before, but these commons were probably only handled once or twice since they were taken out of cases. They were spectacular! The dealer allowed me to buy a limited quantity of every card. So for 6 straight Saturdays I went to this shop and selected the best examples of these cards. There were typically 50 of each card. Sadly the majority were off-center, especially the 69's, so I probably only selected 80 different cards for 1969. I used a 10X lighted magnifier and selected the best 2 or 3 examples of these cards including this Bunning. I submitted the '69's to PSA on two different invoices. There were about 50-60 cards per invoice - most were in multiples of 2 or 3. All were checked and re-checked for the slightest corner wear. In my mind, all were pristine and only strong 9 or 10 candidates were submitted. When the invoices finally returned I got only one 10 (Paul Popvich) and about 75% 9's and the rest 8's. I was totally perplexed why there were any 8's - especially on some like this Bunning. Anyway, I kept the highest graded example of each for my collection and sold the duplicates that were either 9 or 8.
When I sold the duplicates, I listed those 8's on eBay (along with some gorgeous 9's). Without exception, everyone who bought the 8's were blown away that they were not 9's. In fact, I even recall you buying a Charlie Smith from me and writing that it should have been a 9. If you still have it, I would strongly urge you to break it out. It should grade 9. I know two other collectors including our mutual friend who broke out some of those 8's out and got 9s. Also, the 9's that I sold to several people are regarded as being as nice, if not nicer than many of the 10's they own. So after getting this feedback over the past 2 years, it was only a matter of time that I re-submitted the 8's from those 2 invoices that were in my collection this past January and just about all of the '69's graded 9. As you can see from the scan, my Bunning is no "slider".
I have never confronted PSA in regards to why this happened, and it's happened many times. I have chatted with dealers and a former PSA grader regarding this issue. The concensus I've received is that it's nearly impossible for PSA to give an entire large invoice all 9s and 10's. Whether it's an unwritten law or just in the subconsious of the graders, it just never happens. I've been told that you should mix 8's in with 9's to get more accurate results. A former grader told my friend and I that graders tend to judge one card against the next, and putting totally pristine cards all together will probably get disappointing results if you are expecting all 9's and 10s.
I believe you are correct in that PSA is hesitant to give out all 9's and 10's on an invoice, particularly with vintage. When I submit pack fresh cards all in one invoice that are all well centered, great print and razor sharp corners, I never get more than 75% 9's. I've learned to mix quality and years in the same invoice. By mixing it up, I think it keeps the graders attention better than submitting 100 or so cards from the same year or even of the same player/year.
I do the same thing. Generally, I send in 2 of each card if I can. Very rarely, will I get 2 PSA 9's. But, if I get one and can sell off the 8, then I can usually cover most of the grading fees. If you send in all top notch cards with nothing lower on an invoice, I think that it sort of raises the expectations of what 8's and 9's really. So, by throwing some sacrificial cards in, the grades seem much more in line with what I'm expecting.
Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!
lynnfrank@earthlink.net
outerbankyank on eBay!
I've been mixing it up the past 18 months or so pretty much by default. It's getting harder and harder to find vintage mint cards, so to get bulk shipment status, I usually have to throw in some or many NM-Mint cards as fillers.
I too have been told that my 8's are better than 9's. I have hundreds of thousands of vending cards from 61-79. It always seems to me that they do judge card against card. My recent shipment was some of the best cards I have and I was given 80% 8's. I have 7's that are better than 8's, in fact I cant understand why there 7's!I just couldnt believe it. I started pulling 9's out of my 69 set and theres no way these 9's are better than the 8's , in fact under a 10x mag there better!!. I've been at this for a very very long time and I just have a problem with someone who because they get paid to grade cards that they can do a better job than me. I'm just not that bad as I'm sure you are too. I havent seen a 10 yet that just blew me away. I had 3 and I thought they were 9's. Then I've sent in stunners and they come back 8. Maybe I ought to mix it up more and send much smaller shipments. Its something I have to consider. I also dont send more that 2 or 3 of any one card in a shipment anymore either.
Come to think of it the best invoice I submitted in the last 6 months was only 15 cards. It had 1-10 9-9's and 5-8's. Maybe thats what I need to do.
"If I ever decided to do a book, I've already got the title-The Bases Were Loaded and So Was I"-Jim Fregosi