Home PSA Set Registry Forum

1969 Topps

Wow -- $600 BIN

I am a Jim Bunning fan and all -- but a $600 BIN on a card with a huge and noticeable print spot is not my game. Anyway -- 1969 is not my expertise, but I thought I would look to hear other input from others on this. Sure, the population is low -- but is it worth a huge multiple over an 8 with a spot like that?
I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.

Comments

  • MikeSchmidt - Print mark aside, Low POP 9's in the 69' set can often bring big dough. As Gaspipe may be able to confirm, you can sometimes draw out big money that is lying in the weeds for a card such as this. Maybe a must have Phillie fan, No Hit collector, or serious 69' set builder may get anxious even at this price. For the seller it is worth the $.05 for the one in a hundred chance someone bites.
    Outrageous to pay it? Of course. Might the seller find a buyer? You never know!
    Card is out of my league anyhoot. Maybe Mitochondria is out there to lend a fresh perspective.
    RayB69Topps
    Never met a Vintage card I didn't like!
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    I certainly don't deny anyone the right to put outrageous BINs in their auctions, not at all. And I hope I didn't come across as criticizing the auction. Just wanted to hear some thoughts on it. Part of my thought process was in terms of 'what is the reserve'. Since I base my guess on what I see as the BIN, it just leads me to thinking, that's all.

    Hey -- won't say I won't do it myself. I've seen some 1963 Fleer PSA 9 cards go for HUGE $$$ lately, so I was thinking of putting up a few Phillies I have from that year with $500 reserves. The last few auctions I tracked saw prices go from $200+ to $600+ in the last minute of the auction.

    MS
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • I'm just wondering why he's selling off the gems from his set. I noticed he sold off the PSA 10 Ted Williams and another 10 that I can't recall at the moment. Perhaps he's found a mint raw grade set that he's gearing up to buy?
    Please visit my eBay auctions at gemint
  • gaspipe26gaspipe26 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭
    1969 McCovey in 9 sold for $900. Steve Carlton in 9 sold for over $700. Killebrew in 9 sold for over $800. Kaline in 9 sold for over $1100. Seaver in 9 sold for over $800 and that wasnt even a nice 9. All are very low pop star cards in 9 with none higher. The Bunning is 1 of 2 and the other one was is an 8 and was whined up to a 9. This was the first. I just really love people who have stuff to say about items that they dont own. My mother always told me "if you dont have anything nice to say dont say anything" Also the POP on the Bunning in 8 is also very low. So whats so bad about a POP 2 star in 9 with a low POP in 8 going for what the BIN is? Commons in 10 go for upwards of $400. When do you think you'll ever see another one offered? Let me ask you this. Do you think a 1968 WL McCormick in 8 is worth $2000.00? Well it will cost you more than that to buy one if another is ever listed on ebay. The last on sold for over $2000. Is a 1969 Clemente worth $1200? There must be 50 in 9. The card is worth whatever someone will pay for it. That goes for a 1961 common to a 1986 Jordan. If you dont like the price dont buy it.
  • gaspipe26gaspipe26 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭
    Also there is no huge noticable print dot on this card.
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    Gaspipe-

    Again, I was not criticizing your auction. I was only looking for comment. I do not follow the set enough to know about the nuances of how the low pop star 9's sell. The print dot/cloud that I was referring to is the big white one under the word "Pitcher" in the upper right circle. A white cloud on a magenta background sticks out fairly noticeably, it seems.

    The card does seem to be centered fairly well by 1969 Topps standards. Good luck with your auction.
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • Gaspipe - I'll repeat what I have said on these boards before to the audience at hand. Your 1969 set knowledge is first rate. As a seller of this product, your material is top shelf. Your BIN prices may seem outlandish to the uninitiated but they are cards in high demand with low POP's we are talking about from 1969! I value your judgement, advise, knowledge and comradery as it pertains to the 69's. You are far more likely than 99% of the people here to know where the point of purchase lies with this high end material based on your extensive track record with same. And just for the record the Bunning is a card I would be envious of, and proud to own for my modest set.
    Respectfully
    RayB69Topps
    Never met a Vintage card I didn't like!
  • Wow - I didn't even see your auctions gaspipe! You have some very nice cards for auction. Are you splitting up a set? When I search ebay I always search "1965 Topps psa (8,9,10)" and therefore missed the auctions because topps is not in the title. I'm glad that you made me aware of his auctions this week.

    Wayne
    1955 Bowman Football
  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    gaspipe26,


    To quote you:

    << <i> "I just really love people who have stuff to say about items that they don't own." >>



    With all due respect Bob, I own the other 1969 Bunning PSA 9 card. I never complained, bribed or threatened PSA about giving it a 9. I submitted it to PSA myself with 99 other cards this past January through the mail in raw form and it came back a 9. There was zero dialogue between anyone at PSA and myself regarding this card or any card I ever submitted to PSA. The card made the grade on its own merits and is very worthy of PSA 9. Both cards can be seen below. Mine has 4 very pristine corners and no print marks. I'll forgive and forget this ever happened if you are willing to make me a good deal on that '73 Sparky Anderson PSA 9 card. You know where to reach me. Have a great day. image

    image
    image
  • gaspipe26gaspipe26 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭
    Dan,
    Your absolutely right and I apologize. I was told from what I thought was a reliable source that the second Bunning was in an 8 and cracked out and made 9. Mine was the only 9 for quite sometime. I purchased it and 3 days later yours hit the POP report. It was quite a surprise. Again accept my apology and I'll start following my own advice.

    Bob
  • gaspipe....Why is your 69 Bunning PSA 9 no longer for sale on ebay?
    Have you hugged your baseball cards today?
  • gaspipe26gaspipe26 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭
    I figured that I was never going to be able to get another so I just decided to put it back in the closet.
  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    Bob,

    It actually was cracked out, which to me is not the same as "it was whined to a 9" which to me can be construed as I called PSA and complained and negotiated a higher grade - which I don't believe in doing.

    It's a long story, but I truly believe I was victimized the first time I submitted it. In 1999, I knew a local dealer that had 7000 - 1968 vending commons and 5000 - 1969 vending commons. The stars were pulled years before, but these commons were probably only handled once or twice since they were taken out of cases. They were spectacular! The dealer allowed me to buy a limited quantity of every card. So for 6 straight Saturdays I went to this shop and selected the best examples of these cards. There were typically 50 of each card. Sadly the majority were off-center, especially the 69's, so I probably only selected 80 different cards for 1969. I used a 10X lighted magnifier and selected the best 2 or 3 examples of these cards including this Bunning. I submitted the '69's to PSA on two different invoices. There were about 50-60 cards per invoice - most were in multiples of 2 or 3. All were checked and re-checked for the slightest corner wear. In my mind, all were pristine and only strong 9 or 10 candidates were submitted. When the invoices finally returned I got only one 10 (Paul Popvich) and about 75% 9's and the rest 8's. I was totally perplexed why there were any 8's - especially on some like this Bunning. Anyway, I kept the highest graded example of each for my collection and sold the duplicates that were either 9 or 8.

    When I sold the duplicates, I listed those 8's on eBay (along with some gorgeous 9's). Without exception, everyone who bought the 8's were blown away that they were not 9's. In fact, I even recall you buying a Charlie Smith from me and writing that it should have been a 9. If you still have it, I would strongly urge you to break it out. It should grade 9. I know two other collectors including our mutual friend who broke out some of those 8's out and got 9s. Also, the 9's that I sold to several people are regarded as being as nice, if not nicer than many of the 10's they own. So after getting this feedback over the past 2 years, it was only a matter of time that I re-submitted the 8's from those 2 invoices that were in my collection this past January and just about all of the '69's graded 9. As you can see from the scan, my Bunning is no "slider".

    I have never confronted PSA in regards to why this happened, and it's happened many times. I have chatted with dealers and a former PSA grader regarding this issue. The concensus I've received is that it's nearly impossible for PSA to give an entire large invoice all 9s and 10's. Whether it's an unwritten law or just in the subconsious of the graders, it just never happens. I've been told that you should mix 8's in with 9's to get more accurate results. A former grader told my friend and I that graders tend to judge one card against the next, and putting totally pristine cards all together will probably get disappointing results if you are expecting all 9's and 10s.

  • Dan,

    I believe you are correct in that PSA is hesitant to give out all 9's and 10's on an invoice, particularly with vintage. When I submit pack fresh cards all in one invoice that are all well centered, great print and razor sharp corners, I never get more than 75% 9's. I've learned to mix quality and years in the same invoice. By mixing it up, I think it keeps the graders attention better than submitting 100 or so cards from the same year or even of the same player/year.
    Please visit my eBay auctions at gemint
  • FBFB Posts: 1,684 ✭✭
    John,

    I do the same thing. Generally, I send in 2 of each card if I can. Very rarely, will I get 2 PSA 9's. But, if I get one and can sell off the 8, then I can usually cover most of the grading fees. If you send in all top notch cards with nothing lower on an invoice, I think that it sort of raises the expectations of what 8's and 9's really. So, by throwing some sacrificial cards in, the grades seem much more in line with what I'm expecting.

    Frank Bakka
    Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
    Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!

    lynnfrank@earthlink.net
    outerbankyank on eBay!
  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    John and FB,

    I've been mixing it up the past 18 months or so pretty much by default. It's getting harder and harder to find vintage mint cards, so to get bulk shipment status, I usually have to throw in some or many NM-Mint cards as fillers.
  • gaspipe26gaspipe26 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭
    Dan,
    I too have been told that my 8's are better than 9's. I have hundreds of thousands of vending cards from 61-79. It always seems to me that they do judge card against card. My recent shipment was some of the best cards I have and I was given 80% 8's. I have 7's that are better than 8's, in fact I cant understand why there 7's!I just couldnt believe it. I started pulling 9's out of my 69 set and theres no way these 9's are better than the 8's , in fact under a 10x mag there better!!. I've been at this for a very very long time and I just have a problem with someone who because they get paid to grade cards that they can do a better job than me. I'm just not that bad as I'm sure you are too. I havent seen a 10 yet that just blew me away. I had 3 and I thought they were 9's. Then I've sent in stunners and they come back 8. Maybe I ought to mix it up more and send much smaller shipments. Its something I have to consider. I also dont send more that 2 or 3 of any one card in a shipment anymore either.
  • gaspipe26gaspipe26 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭
    Dan,
    Come to think of it the best invoice I submitted in the last 6 months was only 15 cards. It had 1-10 9-9's and 5-8's. Maybe thats what I need to do.
  • I have been fortunate enough to get several duplicate '73 PSA 9s. Unfortunately the 9's haven't sold for spectacular prices and the 8's generate little interest. I can recover my grading fees for both cards on the 9's but definitely not on the 8's. Lately for 8's, I've been lucky to just recover the original cost of the raw card, grading fees, auction listing fees and final value fees for just that duplicate card. After factoring in all the work involved in submitting the cards, listing out all the auctions and then dealing with all the shipping hassles (long P.O. lines, constantly running to the bank to drop off checks, etc), it isn't really worth it.
    Please visit my eBay auctions at gemint
  • gaspipe26gaspipe26 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭
    I'm not far behind you on that fact. To break even without time is $7.00 to $8.00.
  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    I think the most important thing to realize is that grading is an art and not an exact science. I know now that if I believe a card is undergraded, it's definitely worth breaking out and re-submitting.
  • TreetopTreetop Posts: 1,474
    I just found what you are all speaking about the hard way on 1972’s……….In December and January I had submitted 2 vintage bulk 100 count submissions, one each month. Each submission had a mixture of cards from different years. Between the two submissions there was 22 1972 Topps baseball. I received 10 PSA 9’s out of those 22. So, feeling good about my eye on 1972’s, last week I submitted 55 of them on a 67-card invoice………90 percent of these I felt had a shot or were PSA 9 material. I just had my invoice posted and out of the 72’s I got only two PSA 9’s and a few 7’s and a page long list of 8’s………….I think I’ll got back to breaking up submittals……..it seems my success rate is better on obtaining the MINT / PSA 9 for cards when submitted in smaller quantities mixed in with other years on invoices.
    Link to my current Ebay auctions

    "If I ever decided to do a book, I've already got the title-The Bases Were Loaded and So Was I"-Jim Fregosi
Sign In or Register to comment.