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The Real 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols 005/500

OK, here I go with my first post on this or any other message board about this topic. I have followed this board and a few others for several months and have decided that this is where I will get the most knowledgable advise about my issue. I oppened several boxes of 2001 Bowman Chrome Baseball and in one of those boxes I pulled an Albert Pujols Autographed redemption card. The card I recieved is #'D 005/500. I aso had several other very good pulls in these boxes. I watched the Pulols card quite often on ebay to keep up with its current value. I was shocked a little over a year ago when in my ebay search I found a PSA graded 5/500 listed for $15,000.00 and I went...Whats up with this?? I then sent my 005/500 and several other cards to BGS for grading. When my cards arrived I was just as shocked to find that BGS refused to grade the Pujols card and said that they questioned the authenticity because of the 0 or 0's and said they would be glad to grade this at a later date if Topps would authenticate the card. When I contacted Topps and gave them their # off the card and asked for help, I was told they do not keep records back that far. I now have a file at least a 1/2 inch thick of other auctions and message board comments about all the fake cards that have been sold or attempted sales. I have the card locked up along with a copy of the redemption card and the date it was mailed and the date I received the card. I am looking for advise as to how if this had happened to you, you would handle the issue.....Thanks!! and for the skeptics....I am a 60 year old hunting and fishing guide with over 500 ebay trans with perfect feedback and also opened enough boxes of 01 and 02 Topps Heritage Baseball to put (2 ) complete sets of each year together.....and if anyone needs help filling those sets, I'm sure I could help them
hunting/fishing guide/collector
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Comments

  • Hello,

    Welcome to the boards.

    Who was selling the 5/500 on ebay? Do you have a pic (incl. serial #) of the one on ebay and yours you could post on here?

    Unsure if you aware but FCB (Freedom Cardboard) would be another good board to post this on.
    imageimageimage
  • Of the other Topps issues in 2001, is the handwritten 000/500 consistent with anything else? How do the 1/500, 2/500 3/500 look??
    Is it 001/500 etc...?Seems like a tough situation..
  • I am at my other work site right now and do not have my file with me...I do have though the last alledged fake...Ebay #25052909494....interesting enough BGS graded 9....5/500 seller movieboxxx
    hunting/fishing guide/collector
  • I agree...but i also have on file on another puter an ebay auction for a 003/500 and a 007/500 of the same card
    hunting/fishing guide/collector
  • This has been a much discussed topic here. There are a few here that are more familiar with the details that just don't post very often. The thread title will get their attention if they stop by.
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    pics?
  • Ok Vlad , i knew this whould come and I am asking you to be patient. I have pics of the card and the copy of the redemption card and if needed I can post copies of all the resurch I have done on this subject. Answer me this....If I put a copy of this card on here can it be copied and put up for another fraudulent auction on Ebay....After my resurch I totally understand yours and others wanting to be skeptics about this issue...for now I want you or someone to believe me and just give advise if this was your card how you would handle this.
    hunting/fishing guide/collector
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    if you pm me the pic I'll watermark it multiple times 'eyegide - not for sale' and post it up?
  • Ok Vlad, how do I pm you and if you will be patient I will send you a copy of the card. I know you have been involved with other threads on this subject, but i still need your advise on how you would handle this if it was your card and if you would rather advise me by pm let me know
    hunting/fishing guide/collector
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    At the top of the page click profile, then when you see your profile click 'allow others to private message me' to on, I'll watermark the pictures and gladly advise you, as you've mentioned I hope you understand I would like to see the pictures first.


  • << <i>I am at my other work site right now and do not have my file with me...I do have though the last alledged fake...Ebay #25052909494....interesting enough BGS graded 9....5/500 seller movieboxxx >>



    ebay completed auctions wont go back that far.
    imageimageimage
  • i have always believed there are more than one "5/500"


    would love to see a scan of the redemption card and date!

  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    Guys, I have had a few PM's with eyegide and he's going to send me scans to watermark as soon as he picks up the card and is able to scan it. Will keep the thread updated...
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    Okay, here we go!

    image

    I cropped the pictures sent to me to fit as they are now. The dated redemption card is to follow, looking forward to hear everyone's comments!

    To recap, there has been at least four graded Pujols RC Chrome Auto's with the serial # of 5, eyegide is saying that his is the (or a) original #5 card and he has owned it since Topps sent to him. The problem is that his card was recently turned away for questionable authenticity when sent in for grading, probably due to the amount of #5's that have hit the market. For those unaware of how the serial number is changed, basically nail polish remover and q-tip will remove the number without harming the card.

    5/500 Topps sticker #3040260 PSA 9 PSA serial #40002731
    5/500 Topps sticker #3040227 BGS 8
    005/500 Topps sticker #3040244 BGS 9.5
    005/500 Topps sticker #3040359 PSA 9 O/C serial #30119083
    005/500 Topps sticker #3040497
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    I'm going to PM this thread to people involved in the previous Pujols threads...
  • AllenAllen Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
    Sure does look like it was a #115/500 or #125/500 etc. I can see why BGS would reject it. I always trust my hunting guides, or anyone else who walks behind me with a high powered rifle or shotgun (except Dick Cheney).
  • wallst32wallst32 Posts: 513 ✭✭
    I'm not too familiar with this set, but what got my attention was the numbered hologram on the back of the card. Are these issued in sequence or randomly? For example eyegide's card is 3640497, and assuming it is the true 005/500; would 0006 be numbered 3640498?
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    Here's the redemption card...

    image
  • jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭
    My thing is that would have been in a holder many many years ago. Sorry you snooze you lose and
    looks like no matter how much you try to prove that its the original one nobody is
    going to believe you. It is an awesome card and from what I gather the autograph is legit just not the numbering?
    Or thats at least why they (BGS) turned it away?
    Collector Focus

    ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
  • i have a solution, but the solution is in the bank vault....




    i have 21/500......the auto matches mine.....

    Pujols signed quickly when he got to the end of the pile (high numbered /500's have very clean Auto's)

    i have to check the topps sticker number, if it fits sequential to this number, its a match....

    so far the auto matches up with a low number auto....
  • jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭
    It looks like 108/500 is numbered 3040349 and 171/500 is numbered 3040285 if that helps. It doesn't look like
    the numbers are sequenced.
    Collector Focus

    ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It looks like 108/500 is numbered 3040349 and 171/500 is numbered 3040285 if that helps. It doesn't look like
    the numbers are sequenced. >>



    Actually, doesn't that prove they are probably sequenced??

    3040349-3040285= 64
    171-108= 63

    That's only a +/- of 1 over a run of 60 some cards?


  • << <i>My thing is that would have been in a holder many many years ago. Sorry you snooze you lose and looks like no matter how much you try to prove that its the original one nobody is going to believe you. It is an awesome card and from what I gather the autograph is legit just not the numbering? Or thats at least why they (BGS) turned it away? >>



    I disagree, if evidence shows that "5/500" is numbered differently then the rest of them, it's enough to prove to me that the "005/500" is the real deal. If some kind of sequence in the holograms can be identified, even better. I'm not saying that the "5/500" is a counterfeit, but more likely the first two numbers were erased......maybe 105/500?

    This is an iconic card, the history of the card will be available as time goes on. Threads like this will help explain to future hobbyists the
    issue with these two cards 5/500 and 005/500. Matter in fact, if the owner of 005/500 would like to sell it, I may be interested in buying it.
  • jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>It looks like 108/500 is numbered 3040349 and 171/500 is numbered 3040285 if that helps. It doesn't look like
    the numbers are sequenced. >>



    Actually, doesn't that prove they are probably sequenced??

    3040349-3040285= 64
    171-108= 63

    That's only a +/- of 1 over a run of 60 some cards? >>



    Ok his is 005/500 and its 3040497 and that is a 44 difference. It doesn't match up
    Collector Focus

    ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
  • Ok I may be asking a dumb question, but what does the copy of the redemption card prove? Unless I see something on that redemption that directly correlates with the card being #5, it seems meaningless to me in proving that that is the true #5 Pujols.


  • << <i>[

    I disagree, if evidence shows that "5/500" is numbered differently then the rest of them, it's enough to prove to me that the "005/500" is the real deal. If some kind of sequence in the holograms can be identified, even better. I'm not saying that the "5/500" is a counterfeit, but more likely the first two numbers were erased......maybe 105/500?

    This is an iconic card, the history of the card will be available as time goes on. Threads like this will help explain to future hobbyists the
    issue with these two cards 5/500 and 005/500. Matter in fact, if the owner of 005/500 would like to sell it, I may be interested in buying it. >>


    actually, thats not to far off the possibility,, i do know that in nascar collectibles action made limited numbers of cars 2 of 4557, 45 of 4557,, so on , what they did to get around this is added a sticker or 2 to the car and they made it so the limited run started over, not saying this is the way the cards were marked but it is possible you have card 5/500 but there is also a 005/500, anything possible in the collectible world,,, bj
    imageimageimageimageimage
  • schr1stschr1st Posts: 1,677 ✭✭
    The heading of this post ("The Real 2001 Bowman Chrome Albert Pujols 005/500) combined with the rest of the info provided so far have me thinking that this is just another bad 005/500 card that was attempted to be "made authentic" by discussion here.
    Who is Rober Maris?
  • jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭
    Agree^
    Collector Focus

    ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    My question is why would it matter if it was at one time a 125 of 500 or whatever was mentioned earlier
    as opposed to being a 005 of 500? Lower number fetch higher dollars?

    If not I see no reason why anyone would do such a thing.


    Thanks in advance for the answer.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • Steve, I think it has more to do with #5 being his jersey number.
  • This is just plain ridiculous that people are altering a card like that. Where does it stop? Trying to alter the number so it's his jersey number? I've even heard of people erasing his signature because it faded or was smeared and forging his sig. I'd have to say the OP is trying to prove his case that his is authentic, provenance is important, especially with this card.
  • I've got no opinion on these cards one way or another, but I find these Pujols card threads fascinating. Which card was the subject on controversy a couple of months back?
  • schr1stschr1st Posts: 1,677 ✭✭
    the 005/500 has been a source of controversy for a while. There are also problems with fake Fleer Legacy autographed rookie cards as well.



    << <i>I've got no opinion on these cards one way or another, but I find these Pujols card threads fascinating. Which card was the subject on controversy a couple of months back? >>

    Who is Rober Maris?
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Ahhhh thanks Doran, I did not realize that.


    Steve
    Good for you.


  • << <i>Ahhhh thanks Doran, I did not realize that.


    Steve >>



    dont know if your serious


  • jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭
    If Steve doesn't follow modern Baseball and or Pujols he would have thought his jersey number was 36.
    Collector Focus

    ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658


  • << <i>the 005/500 has been a source of controversy for a while. There are also problems with fake Fleer Legacy autographed rookie cards as well.
    >>



    That's the card I was thinking of. There was some debate because some of the cards have autographs and some don't.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Geez Fandango I know all about Pujols, I know he is a great hitter. I just had no idea what his jersey number was.




    Again, thanks to Doran for answering my question.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • That's funny because I was wondering the same thing Steve was about why anyone would alter a card to 005/500 if it was a legitimate card anyway.

    Guess I didn't care enough about Pujols to know his jersey number. image
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I'd like to ask another question.

    This one is when sending this card in to get authenticated/graded would it be possible to send in the

    redemption card with it? Wouldn't that help?

    Or are these people also counterfeiting/reprinting these as well?



    Sorry if this has already been mentioned.


    Steve


    Good for you.
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    How about contacting Beckett and PSA to see if they have a 5/500 Pujols graded already.

    It sounds like they do. So, we have a slabbed counterfeit/altered card floating around that passes as legit?

    This is confusing.

    If the Beckett people want Topps to authenticate, shouldn't they have that burden in order to verify? If they hand it back to the customer, the string of possession becomes questionable too.

    Also, if there is a 005/500 and a 5/500, that makes no sense. So, there are more than 500 of these cards around? No, that makes no sense. What would be 125/500? You cannot write it 0125/500. That would be silly.

    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • The redemption card is irrelevant to the authenticity of the card actually being 005/500.

    There are more than 1 of the card numbered "5" since all but 1 are fake.

    All it takes a wipe off and rewrite to make the card 005/500.

    If this is indeed the original 005/500, good luck getting it authenticated.

    The scammer who originally sent one in with the 005/500 made the money that you should have.

    I'm sorry this happened to you.
  • I still believe it can be proven which one is the real serial number 5/500 or 005/500. Whether a company graded one or not is irrelevant. There are certain aspects that are common in all of the cards. It's a tough situation for the OP but if he's persistent, I think it can be proven which one is the serial number to his jersey.
  • With the rise in SV of jersey-numbered cards, it's too bad that more companies didn't do what Fleer did on at least some of their redemptions and that was to serial-number them just like a regular card so you knew which number you were going to get (and in this case, would have provided a little more evidence that the number was true)
  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭
    I find it hard to believe that Topps can't keep digital records from 9 years ago


  • << <i>I find it hard to believe that Topps can't keep digital records from 9 years ago >>



    I'm not shocked. I think they only went online with redemptions in the last two years long after Upper Deck and others.
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    Great, with that much uncertainty, all #5s will be taken with a grain of salt. In fact, worthless. Its not worth the risk to pay thousands of the dollars for the #5 card. Get one with no 5s in there like a 106. No one erased anything there.

    The ink that was used to write the 5/500 should be analyzed. If the card is real, but the digits were erases with nail polish remover, something had to be used to rewrite the digits. That something could not possibly be the same ink used. I know it would take some forensic science to do the test, but it is done all the time.

    Beckett and PSA better be worried that there is a slabbed altered card out there.

    With thousands of dollars at stake, the Pujols should be brought to the attention of Topps, Beckett and PSA and tell them you will seek an independent investigator to do an ink test. Topps must disclose the type of ink used to the forensics investigator. Sure a sample of ink will be missing from the card, but that is nothing compared to what is at stake here.
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    hammered,

    Good point. I am surprised they have no records whatsoever. It would help the OP's case if Topps had the mailing list of what addresses they sent out the cards to. Its funny, but data that can often be useful is not saved yet we have such odd things being preserved like Tiger Wood's old text messages to his mistresses, Roger Clemens bloody guaze by MacNamee, etc.....

    I mean, we live in an age where data can easily be stored without taking up space. Sometimes we want certain data to be erased from a certain data base like our social security numbers, credit card numbers, text messages, emails, whatever..... A store or former mistress or ex girlfriend should never have those...image
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • I think it's obvious that the first "0" doesn't match the other three "0"s. The pen strokes aren't the same. The top of each zero is pointed with the exception of the first one. The color of the first zero is obviously lighter than the other three.

    IMO, this card was originally #'d 105, 205, 305 or 405/500.
  • If Topps had kept records of the serial #'s this would all be easy to figure out. Since it appears they didn't, we get to be defectives.
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