<< <i>For those of you who remember building Heathkits back in the day, they could use the resistor color code -- black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, gray, white.
There's a great mnemonic for remembering this, by the way! >>
Wasn't it ...but Violet gives ........ ?? Been awhile, I know...
At the risk of sounding ignorant, why is this done?
I sell automotive, and I just put the price on it, and decide if I want to wiggle on the price.
What I paid for it is immaterial.
I am sure many a dealer has told a person coming to their shop to sell something, that "It is not what you paid for it, but what it is worth now."
So if, all things being equal, a pair of generic coins, say a pair of 2001 ASE's, same condition, same everything, where one of them the dealer paid $45 and the other he paid $30, how would that affect the selling price?
<< <i>At the risk of sounding ignorant, why is this done?
I sell automotive, and I just put the price on it, and decide if I want to wiggle on the price.
What I paid for it is immaterial.
I am sure many a dealer has told a person coming to their shop to sell something, that "It is not what you paid for it, but what it is worth now."
So if, all things being equal, a pair of generic coins, say a pair of 2001 ASE's, same condition, same everything, where one of them the dealer paid $45 and the other he paid $30, how would that affect the selling price? >>
1) You're selling widgets and already have the cost entered in inventory control 2) What's your mark-up? Better than I coins, I'll bet.
3) Maybe there's a difference between friendly wholesale, straight wholesale and retail quotes. 4) Cost coding? Maybe a dealer will resist taking a chisel (excuse me. counter-offer) because of ego, maybe he won't. But the info is right in front of him.
Many larger dealers code a coin's purchase date. As inventory ages, as the shelf life runs down, adjustments in pricing are made.
Right or wrong, logical or not, coding costs, prices, etc is part of the way the business works. People feel comfortable with it.
This thread is about coding techniques, not their underlying rationale. Non-dweebs, piss off
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Yup, 10 letter word or words, have first lettter correspond with 1 or 0, for ease of recall.
I have to admit i enjoy adding those extra nonsense letters to make the "dealer price pd" look longer and more complex, adding date acquired also works.!
<< <i>At the risk of sounding ignorant, why is this done?
I sell automotive, and I just put the price on it, and decide if I want to wiggle on the price.
What I paid for it is immaterial.
I am sure many a dealer has told a person coming to their shop to sell something, that "It is not what you paid for it, but what it is worth now."
So if, all things being equal, a pair of generic coins, say a pair of 2001 ASE's, same condition, same everything, where one of them the dealer paid $45 and the other he paid $30, how would that affect the selling price? >>
The dealer has to know what he paid for the coin. A code is instant reference to see if the person making an offer is giving him a profit.No one remembers what they paid for everything that they have. A few months or years may pass before it is sold.
I triple the cost and then go alphabet.(A=1,B=2,etc., all the way to J=0) For instance a coin that cost me $40 would convert to ABJ. (120 /3 =40)I have used this code for over 40 years and no one has ever figured it out... I know a dealer that just puts letters around his cost --In other words a coin that cost him say $500 the code would something like FG500XP.
It is true though what you say about what difference does it make to the buyer? Really what difference does it make if he bought a coin for $1000 or got it for free or found it? He still wants what the wants for it and if you want it you will have to pay what he is asking for it.
<< <i>For those of you who remember building Heathkits back in the day, they could use the resistor color code -- black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, gray, white.
There's a great mnemonic for remembering this, by the way! >>
Wasn't it ...but Violet gives ........ ?? Been awhile, I know...
>>
Yes, "Violet gives."
Our electronics instructor taught us one way, but we tweaked it a bit to make it more naughty.
Me at the Springfield coin show: 60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
A binary code is easy to read . Using the "double dabble" method.
example 1011 is eleven, 1001=nine
Going left to right--and starting with the first "1", count encountered it as one If the next place to the right is a zero double the count do not add any more to the count .Now you have a count of two. The next place is a "1" so double the count and add 1 . the count total is now 5. next is a"1" again so double the count and add 1, the count and the final number is "11"
I no longer use a letter code, as I find them unwieldy and I have to count on my fingers to decode them. Too slow.
So I came up with a very clever (if I do say so myself) way of hiding that information in plain sight.
So far only two forum friends know my secret.
I won't go right out and say what it is here, but I'll post a coin from my collection and see if you can figure it out.
(Don't post the answer here if you do.)
Since my costs are not exactly a state secret and I often divulge them anyway, I will give you a chance to guess how I keep that information at my fingertips wherever I go, with no need for letter codes or even writing anything at all on the holders. And it's not immediately apparent to the eye, unless you know where to look.
Here is an example. See if you can figure out my cost on this coin. You may confirm your hunch via PM if you aren't sure you have it right.
Note that the method I used here could also be used with a letter code, for added concealment, if you're the kind who holds his cards closer to his chest than I do.
They are based on the name of a girl I have been seeing the last five years who danced at a club where I am VIP. Consequently it would be difficult for someone to figure an alphabetical / numerical sequence. In addition, I have certain alpha letters representing zero, double zero, etc. I may also put retail values in code along with a code for the source. The strategy is to give quick price quotes to serious buyers.
Lately I simply I just write the retail market price (usually highest) on a sticker and put it on the back of the holder. This can be easily updated and is readily available vs having to look at the computer in order to quote a price not necessarily in my memory. The goal is to get between cost and retail. I use CU, CW, KRS, and L&C as a reference. In my spreadsheet I also record other pertinent data like auction data from CF with a column (Market Value - based on the higher of CU or CW to keep it simple) next to cost. I will have tackons for CAC, pedigree, early release, rainbow, etc. I don't bother with averages as there can be wild variations. If I am at a show where I don't have my laptop available, then a copy of Coin Values and L&C will suffice. At a recent show I bought about two dozen generic Morgan Dollars from a wholesaler around bid in grades 63-64, took them back to my table, and put cost code stickers and price stickers (based on L&C) on the back of the slabs. I like stickers as small as possible, the easily peel off kind so the slab is not damaged or a residue left. I prefer pricing data on the back of the slab (1) to prevent other dealers seeing the price and trying to undercut me and (2) if the public is not asking prices then its a red flag the people coming in the door of the show don't have any money and my "Cash paid for Coins and Currency" banner may need to go up because there could be some deals.
Many coins can be especially difficult to price like toned coins or some esoteric issue. One has to consider all sources available.
Any cost or retail code should be (1) on the back of the holder and (2) something they can't decipher. The goal is a quick price qoute and get between cost and retail if haggling is involved.
This is the catalogue code of a major auction buyer who doesn't post here. What he's paid is coded differently on his slabs. When many he knows take a quote and counter, his response is often "You know my code. Let's both make some money.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I don't use cost codes on coins. Instead I use a relatively easy to read code that is the lowest price I would take for the coin -wholesale to a dealer I do decent business with. All of my regular dealers I sell to know my codes. They do not need to ask me prices -they can buy or pass at the wholesale coded number. For a retail customer, I will look at the retail price on the front, the wholsale price on the back, and quote something in between based upon any number of factors.
A ten letter word with no repeating letters has been used by retailers for ages. I also want to know when I bought it. If my code word was PATHFINDER (which it isn't), and I paid $235 for it in September 2012, the code would read 09ATF12.
However you decide to do it, it will become second nature in due time.
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector. Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Prime factorization, then represent the price as a series of exponents. For example: $100 = 5^2 * 2^2, which I'd represent as 202 $150 = 5^2 * 3^1 * 2^1 = 211 $7 = 1000
Where the series of exponents becomes unweildy, say for a code of $1789, a shorthand using the oridinal position of a prime factor in the list of prime numbers would be used. In this case (278)1, as 1789 is the 278th prime number. When reading the code, the cost is then simply a Gödel encoding of the code.
<< <i>Prime factorization, then represent the price as a series of exponents. For example: $100 = 5^2 * 2^2, which I'd represent as 202 $150 = 5^2 * 3^1 * 2^1 = 211 $7 = 1000
Where the series of exponents becomes unweildy, say for a code of $1789, a shorthand using the oridinal position of a prime factor in the list of prime numbers would be used. In this case (278)1, as 1789 is the 278th prime number. When reading the code, the cost is then simply a Gödel encoding of the code. >>
Technically elegant, and I'm always willing to cut a little off the bone for a quantum physicist, cyberneticist, or anyone else who wonders in between visits to whatever set of dimensions of Hilbert space they find most fascinating.
Man, you da bombe.
Is Life simply like a box of chocolates, or is Schrodinger's Cat involved?
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
So, which number are you using the code for? the amount you're into the coin? or the lowest price at which you're willing to sell? For me those are not always the same number.
Lord M, I'm pretty sure I figured out your secret. Though I'm not 100% as it would not work on the bourse.
I totally agree, and that is typically what I do - the number that was my cost. The problem then becomes, when someone asks "how much" you aren't really any better off than before. Unless your margin is the same for every coin, which is not the case for me. I guess I just don't understand the point of the codes. If the sale price isn't being coded ... and you're still having to carry around price sheets or put price tags on the coins ...
Comments
<< <i>For those of you who remember building Heathkits back in the day, they could use the resistor color code -- black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, gray, white.
There's a great mnemonic for remembering this, by the way! >>
Wasn't it ...but Violet gives ........ ?? Been awhile, I know...
I sell automotive, and I just put the price on it, and decide if I want to wiggle on the price.
What I paid for it is immaterial.
I am sure many a dealer has told a person coming to their shop to sell something, that "It is not what you paid for it, but what it is worth now."
So if, all things being equal, a pair of generic coins, say a pair of 2001 ASE's, same condition, same everything, where one of them the dealer paid $45 and the other he paid $30, how would that affect the selling price?
<< <i>At the risk of sounding ignorant, why is this done?
I sell automotive, and I just put the price on it, and decide if I want to wiggle on the price.
What I paid for it is immaterial.
I am sure many a dealer has told a person coming to their shop to sell something, that "It is not what you paid for it, but what it is worth now."
So if, all things being equal, a pair of generic coins, say a pair of 2001 ASE's, same condition, same everything, where one of them the dealer paid $45 and the other he paid $30, how would that affect the selling price? >>
1) You're selling widgets and already have the cost entered in inventory control
2) What's your mark-up? Better than I coins, I'll bet.
3) Maybe there's a difference between friendly wholesale, straight wholesale and retail quotes.
4) Cost coding? Maybe a dealer will resist taking a chisel (excuse me. counter-offer) because of ego, maybe he won't. But the info is right in front of him.
Many larger dealers code a coin's purchase date. As inventory ages, as the shelf life runs down, adjustments in pricing are made.
Right or wrong, logical or not, coding costs, prices, etc is part of the way the business works. People feel comfortable with it.
This thread is about coding techniques, not their underlying rationale. Non-dweebs, piss off
Example : $ 29.
<< <i>dollar sign followed by a number , then a decimal point.
Example : $ 29. >>
and the code ... initials and numbers for the purchase price, date, seller, etc...
alpha to zulu and 0-9
A code inside a code
PO 1
FR 2
AG 3
GD 4
VG 5
etc.
MISTERYDOGS
I have to admit i enjoy adding those extra nonsense letters to make the "dealer price pd" look longer and more complex, adding date acquired also works.!
<< <i>At the risk of sounding ignorant, why is this done?
I sell automotive, and I just put the price on it, and decide if I want to wiggle on the price.
What I paid for it is immaterial.
I am sure many a dealer has told a person coming to their shop to sell something, that "It is not what you paid for it, but what it is worth now."
So if, all things being equal, a pair of generic coins, say a pair of 2001 ASE's, same condition, same everything, where one of them the dealer paid $45 and the other he paid $30, how would that affect the selling price? >>
The dealer has to know what he paid for the coin. A code is instant reference to see if the person making an offer is giving him a profit.No one remembers what they paid for everything that they have. A few months or years may pass before it is sold.
I triple the cost and then go alphabet.(A=1,B=2,etc., all the way to J=0) For instance a coin that cost me $40 would convert to ABJ. (120 /3 =40)I have used this code for over 40 years and no one has ever figured it out... I know a dealer that just puts letters around his cost --In other words a coin that cost him say $500 the code would something like FG500XP.
It is true though what you say about what difference does it make to the buyer? Really what difference does it make if he bought a coin for $1000 or got it for free or found it? He still wants what the wants for it and if you want it you will have to pay what he is asking for it.
Bob
<< <i>
<< <i>For those of you who remember building Heathkits back in the day, they could use the resistor color code -- black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, gray, white.
There's a great mnemonic for remembering this, by the way! >>
Wasn't it ...but Violet gives ........ ?? Been awhile, I know...
Yes, "Violet gives."
Our electronics instructor taught us one way, but we tweaked it a bit to make it more naughty.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
A binary code is easy to read . Using the "double dabble" method.
example 1011 is eleven, 1001=nine
Going left to right--and starting with the first "1", count encountered it as one
If the next place to the right is a zero double the count do not add any more to the count .Now you have a count of two.
The next place is a "1" so double the count and add 1 . the count total is now 5.
next is a"1" again so double the count and add 1, the count and the final number is "11"
Krueger
<< <i>Charleston!
All you need is a 10 letter word! >>
OVERPRICED!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Charleston!
All you need is a 10 letter word! >>
OVERPRICED!!! >>
That would be a hoot, but it won't work- you've got duplication (two E's) in there.
I no longer use a letter code, as I find them unwieldy and I have to count on my fingers to decode them. Too slow.
So I came up with a very clever (if I do say so myself) way of hiding that information in plain sight.
So far only two forum friends know my secret.
I won't go right out and say what it is here, but I'll post a coin from my collection and see if you can figure it out.
(Don't post the answer here if you do.)
Since my costs are not exactly a state secret and I often divulge them anyway, I will give you a chance to guess how I keep that information at my fingertips wherever I go, with no need for letter codes or even writing anything at all on the holders. And it's not immediately apparent to the eye, unless you know where to look.
Here is an example. See if you can figure out my cost on this coin. You may confirm your hunch via PM if you aren't sure you have it right.
Note that the method I used here could also be used with a letter code, for added concealment, if you're the kind who holds his cards closer to his chest than I do.
They are based on the name of a girl I have been seeing the last five years who danced at a club where I am VIP. Consequently it would be difficult for someone to figure an alphabetical / numerical sequence. In addition, I have certain alpha letters representing zero, double zero, etc. I may also put retail values in code along with a code for the source. The strategy is to give quick price quotes to serious buyers.
Lately I simply I just write the retail market price (usually highest) on a sticker and put it on the back of the holder. This can be easily updated and is readily available vs having to look at the computer in order to quote a price not necessarily in my memory. The goal is to get between cost and retail. I use CU, CW, KRS, and L&C as a reference. In my spreadsheet I also record other pertinent data like auction data from CF with a column (Market Value - based on the higher of CU or CW to keep it simple) next to cost. I will have tackons for CAC, pedigree, early release, rainbow, etc. I don't bother with averages as there can be wild variations. If I am at a show where I don't have my laptop available, then a copy of Coin Values and L&C will suffice. At a recent show I bought about two dozen generic Morgan Dollars from a wholesaler around bid in grades 63-64, took them back to my table, and put cost code stickers and price stickers (based on L&C) on the back of the slabs. I like stickers as small as possible, the easily peel off kind so the slab is not damaged or a residue left. I prefer pricing data on the back of the slab (1) to prevent other dealers seeing the price and trying to undercut me and (2) if the public is not asking prices then its a red flag the people coming in the door of the show don't have any money and my "Cash paid for Coins and Currency" banner may need to go up because there could be some deals.
Many coins can be especially difficult to price like toned coins or some esoteric issue. One has to consider all sources available.
Any cost or retail code should be (1) on the back of the holder and (2) something they can't decipher. The goal is a quick price qoute and get between cost and retail if haggling is involved.
<< <i>dontbelazy >>
This is the catalogue code of a major auction buyer who doesn't post here. What he's paid is coded differently on his slabs. When many he knows take a quote and counter, his response is often "You know my code. Let's both make some money.
<< <i>"You know my code. Let's both make some money.
That's my take on it, and the only reason I shared my little secret above, for those who were savvy enough to figure it out.
merse
Just a question!
This is just a statement. It really is no ones business but the dealers.
your time would be better spent, if you took the same time to learn to grade better!
The code ? : Nebraska got Iowa's Bull.
However you decide to do it, it will become second nature in due time.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
$100 = 5^2 * 2^2, which I'd represent as 202
$150 = 5^2 * 3^1 * 2^1 = 211
$7 = 1000
Where the series of exponents becomes unweildy, say for a code of $1789, a shorthand using the oridinal position of a prime factor in the list of prime numbers would be used. In this case (278)1, as 1789 is the 278th prime number. When reading the code, the cost is then simply a Gödel encoding of the code.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>Prime factorization, then represent the price as a series of exponents. For example:
$100 = 5^2 * 2^2, which I'd represent as 202
$150 = 5^2 * 3^1 * 2^1 = 211
$7 = 1000
Where the series of exponents becomes unweildy, say for a code of $1789, a shorthand using the oridinal position of a prime factor in the list of prime numbers would be used. In this case (278)1, as 1789 is the 278th prime number. When reading the code, the cost is then simply a Gödel encoding of the code. >>
Technically elegant, and I'm always willing to cut a little off the bone for a quantum physicist, cyberneticist, or anyone else who wonders in between visits to whatever set of dimensions of Hilbert space they find most fascinating.
Man, you da bombe.
Is Life simply like a box of chocolates, or is Schrodinger's Cat involved?
broke it as it was for my use only
Steve
Lord M, I'm pretty sure I figured out your secret. Though I'm not 100% as it would not work on the bourse.
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
<< <i>So, which number are you using the code for? the amount you're into the coin? or the lowest price at which you're willing to sell? >>
Easier to encode the original cost. That doesn't change over time.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE