Tetradrachm Athenian Owl question

coinnut86

from a darkside newbe...

How can you tell a forgery on these when the design is hammered (or however it's made) on different locations on the coin? Not only that, but the coin was made so long ago that if it's a well worn coin, how can you possibly tell?

I'm thinking of purchasing one, a cheap? one, and I know nothing about them other than I like them.

Any help will be appreciated

Sapyx

The only way "you" personally could tell is through experience. The various kinds of counterfeits (tourist copy, cast, die-struck) all have different characteristics; experience helps you spot them.

Obviously, as a beginner, there's no easy way to quickly gain experience. So, the best advice would be to purchase your ancients from a trusted source - like an experienced collector, or a dealership that's been around for ages and offers an "eternal guarantee" - so that if you ever find out that a coin sold by them is not genuine, they will reimburse you for it, even if it's decades later.

I'd suggest staying well away from eBay. There are plenty of good, honest, reliable sellers of ancients on eBay. There are also plenty of sellers of fakes, tooled coins, and corroded slugs masquerading as "unsearched and uncleaned". You can't usually tell which is which just by the usual criteria for eBay sellers (feedback, not from China, etc). If you have to consider eBay as a source, first make sure that your seller isn't on a blacklist of known sellers of known fakes. FORVM maintains just such a list as well as a database of known fake types. Choosing sellers not on the list won't guarantee your coin is genuine, but buying from one of those guys will guarantee your coin is fake.

There are some fakes that are very, very good. For some of them, the only reason we know that they're fakes is that a known source of fakes has sold them, or if two or more coins appear for sale with suspiciously similar designs and flaws - the fakemasters usually get greedy and don't stop after making just one fake.

Do not, under any circumstances, go to Athens to attempt to purchase one of these coins, hoping to in this way maximize your chances of obtaining a genuine coin. You will not be successful. Buying, selling and exporting ancient coins is illegal in Greece. If you go to Greece, the street vendors will have bucketfuls of "ancient coins" for the tourists to buy. Each and every one of them will be fake - the Greek government has no problems whatsoever with people buying and selling fake ancient coins.

As for the price of a genuine specimen: it depends on your attitude to acquiring "damaged" coins. Many of the "owls" on the market today are from Egyptian hoards; these coins were all given "test cuts" in Egypt in ancient times, by being hit hard with a chisel. Worn, test-cut examples can go for as little as a few hundred dollars. Finding one without the test cut is trickier, and much more expensive. I paid AU$625 for my owl, from a reputable dealer at a local coin show. It doesn't have a test cut but does have a few nasty scratches, presumably from a harsher-than-usual cleaning job.

A quick glance at FORVM's sale catalogue for "Athens" reveals 12 tetradrachms currently for sale; there are two ancient counterfeits, and one ancient imitation from Palestine; the other nine all have test cuts, with prices ranging from $250 to $435.

Bjorn

Just a follow-up to Sapyx's excellent information - you will pay considerably more for a well-centred specimen and much less for one where the design, particularly Athena's face, goes off the flan. Likewise, the location of the test cut can be important - a cut right on top of Athena's eye or cheek will go for far less than one where the cut is relatively 'unobtrusive' or interferes with the design little. Finally, you have issues of strike and grade - a well-struck coin commands a premium, while particularly weak or mushy strikes will go for less. Many of these coins can be found in relatively high grade, and they are not particularly rare (for an ancient silver coin), but demand keeps prices pretty high. I looked into the series about five years ago and saw relatively high grade, well-centred and well-struck examples (without test marks) usually go for about 800 - 1000 USD. I haven't looked into these pieces much since then, but I believe you could still get such a coin for under 1200 USD.

The majority of modern counterfeits are easily detectable, but I would strongly advise that you only deal with a knowledgeable, reputable dealer to avoid the really deceptive ones. Such dealers have not only developed an eye for spotting fakes, but also have access the latest information on new fakes, including diagnostic markers on the fakes. In most cases you can be pretty confident that a coin purchased from such a dealer is the 'real deal'.

coinnut86

Hey! Thank you!!

500Bay

Forum, , listed above, is excellent. Another good site to compare coins is V Coins.