Headed for PCGS tomorrow. Odds on grade? Body bag? :+)

canadacolornut

Mr Glutton for Punishment is taking another shot.

Both coins were purchased raw, mainly for the color, at reasonable prices.

Any guesses at how they might grade?

Whether they'll grade at all or be body bagged for artificial toning?

I'll figure out a reasonable prize for the winner.

The better the outcome, the more "reasonable" the prize

ajaan

If those are true to color, I predict PCGS will 'Genuine' them for Questionable Color.

wybrit

Better than 50% chance of BB on #1, though it's nice looking.

Better than 70% chance of BB on #2, if the obverse coloring is accurate.

As I posted earlier, "Questionable color" is being awarded almost too often. I've had questionable color grades on coins in the past six months that clearly aren't.

My counsel is: save your money for awhile. If you're going to do this, I'd suggest sending in others with them to make the cost more agreeable.

WWW

MS65BN and MS64BN respectively, but I would be nervous about getting the QC designation for both of them. PCGS is brutal these days.

IloiloKano

Based upon two recent submissions of bronzes with color, I think PCGS will question the color, though bronzes will naturally develop such over the years given the correct environment, and even though such an environment is not uncommon for island states such as the UK and Philippines (my forte).

However, I had an ANACS graded MS63BN cross at the same grade, even though it also had substantial color and I had removed it from the slab in order to include in the same submission package with seven other bronzes, so go figure.

I wish PCGS would take natural environment into consideration, but it appears that for now they are erring on the side of 'GENUINE'.

canadacolornut

I'll be glad when PCGS comes up with a grading standard based on what actually, and naturally, happens from
storage in sulphur content cardboard, felt backing, wooden trays, etc. over the years in comparison with the
tons of chemical induced "Genuines" I see every day in the Teletrade Auctions for example.

The difference is obvious even to average collectors like myself. And to label coins that have layered toning,
down into the copper or silver grain, in naturally progressive color changes built up over decades in the same "Questionable
Color" category as 10 minute doctored coins that even a kid can spot is beneath them I believe.

Yet the continue to do it. On at least 4 coins I've submitted so far that I am willing to swear under oath came from original prooflike and
mint sets in original wrappers or untampered with cardboard containers.

They're better than that normally and badly need to fix it...

IloiloKano

I do hope that you get grades on your submissions, but I think I agree with wybrit on your odds for each coin.

coinkat

I like both coins-

I see color as an issue, however, I like the change in color from the rim to the center and I think that is the best argument for original color. The 1891 looks weak with respect to lustre and that just may be an image issue. This date comes nice. I would say it will grade between 64 and 66 depending on lustre.

The 1844 1/2 Farthing has an obverse that looks okay based on the color/toning progression on the obverse. I thin the reverse is the problem- but I think it should grade provided that the red is red and not pink

coinkat

For what it is worth, I bought a 1937 1d with color like the obverse of the 1/2 Farthing- Mine will not be submitted, but it was purchased because I liked the look

tacynnep

Is it die crashed on the 1891? They are beautiful !

coinkat

I should have said that both are BRN- and I never suggested a grade for the 1/2 farthing- I am in the 64 camp on that one

Walter

If they slab, I'd estimate 66BN and 64BN for the penny and 1/4d respectively.

Of course Questionable color is a hit and miss these days, just send in a fresh mint roll from the Perth mint and see how many of them PCGS determine have been artificially toned.

canadacolornut

Well I got the grades back today.

The half farthing that I/we thought might be body bagged came back MS 63 BRN-about a point lower than most
estimated.

But the penney, that I was really hoping for a nice grade on, came back body bagged for surface contamination.

I think the odds are better in the Ohio powerball lottery

IloiloKano

Surface contamination? What is that?

Is it like PVC contamination? Can't 'contamination' be safely removed?

But how would you know whether or not it is gone, should an acetone soak be tried?

I'm sorry to hear what is most certainly disappointing news.

canadacolornut

Sorry, I just checked again and the code number is for "cleaned".

At least it wasn't bagged for AT.

WWW

All things considered, you did OK. They are both very pretty looking coins.

SwK

Great coins - great ghosting

MS65+ they look more than great for an Englishman


br
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coinkat

One thing that is difficult to describe is the effect a coin cabinet can have on bronze/copper.

I would be reluctant to say the 1891 1d was cleaned, retoned or enhanced. It likely spent several years in a coin cabinet

laserart

But, but, tomorrow is a holiday.