Potosi 1774 8 Reales Hoard

pruebas

Does anyone know about the hoard of uncirculated Potosi 1774 Charles III 8 Reales?

Heritage says the hoard was disbursed in the 1970s, but I think they meant that the hoard was discovered in the 1970s. It seems like its being disbursed now!

The below specimens all appear to be different:

Goldberg Millennia Auction, Beverly Hills, May 2008, Lot 942
Bowers & Merena World Coin Auction, Baltimore, November 2009, Lot 8892
Bowers & Merena World Coin Auction, Baltimore, November 2009, Lot 8893
Heritage World Coin Auction, New York, January 2010, Lot 20441
Heritage World Coin Auction, New York, January 2010, Lot 20442
Coin Rarities Online, Inventory
Northeast Numismatics, Inventory #1
Northeast Numismatics, Inventory #2

The pieces I have seen are quite nice, many with PL surfaces, a few struck with a clashed/damaged obverse die (like the Millennia specimen).

I would like to know who discovered the hoard? Where? How many pieces?
Under what circumstances?

OchoReales

From what I have been told, (by Louis Hudson, Mike Dunigan and Paul Karon) the hoard was 'discovered' in 1974 in Bolivia and actually contained upwards of 200-250 pieces (all dated 1774). Supposedly, these were struck as well as they were to impress the Spanish Crown. About three years ago, Marc Teller and I were having a conversation about this and he told me that in the late 70's, he purchased 5 pieces and that he would not part with any (as they were to be part of his retirement), but he recently advertised a piece on his website as well. The coins WERE broken up at the time (albeit) but it seems that they were dispersed in small lots. As an avid and serious collector of Bolivia and Potosi coinage, this is not a piece that I am rushing to purchase, for the reason you mentioned; many examples are now coming to market. What is the cause? Who knows? It is certainly a date that is more common than any other Charles III 8 Reales PTS in choice to Gem UNC (other than the year 1808).

Heritage auctioned off the Morris Geiger coin at FUN 2004. I was the underbidder. It was raw but probably (if holdered) graded 64+ and fully PL on both sides. An amazing coin!

Edited to change Charles II to Charles III. Glad I caught the typo before anyone else! It pays to proofread BEFORE posting!

pruebas

Thanks for the info, Gary.

Interesting that the hoard was found in 1974, 200 years after the year of minting.

I guess one of those small groups that was originally part of the hoard is being liquidated now into a good market.

Here is the coin you referred to. It also has the clashed/damaged obverse die.

Heritage World Coin Auction, Orlando, January 2004, Lot 12460

I cannot find the Teller coin online.

OchoReales

I will get in touch with Louis (he's at FUN and I'm sitting it out, recovering from surgery) for more info. If I remember correctly, he was living in Bolivia at the time and was instrumental in bringing the coins to market.

shirohniichan

While holders of 1774 Potosi 8 reales may not be thrilled, I'm happy to hear about the hoard.

The Prince Edward Island cent hoard and others that bring prices down are others that make my day. Thank you, previous generations, for saving uncirculated coins!

pruebas

I agree that hoards are good for numismatists as they make nice coins available for purchase and for study.

Lets say that there are indeed 200-250 of these in the hoard. Would they still justify the prices they have been bringing ($1600+ for a low-end Unc specimen and $3000+ for a gem Unc)?

I have always understood that, in general, hoards do not lower prices much in the long term. At least that is what numismatic authors say (most of whom happen to be coin dealers, so obviously they have a vested interest). In the short term, the uncertainty about a hoard tends to lower prices, at least initially.

Do you think that is a fair assessment for a hoard this size?

OchoReales

Given the amount of collectors of Spanish Colonial coinage and that not all or even most of these coins will hit the market in a short period of time and also considering my earlier statement about true Mint State Charles III Potosi 8 Reales and their survival rate, I do not anticipate prices inching down any lower. There is simply more demand than supply. Just my educated opinion.

OchoReales

Ponterio has 2 pieces coming up for auction at NYINC. Lots 7528 and 7529. Both grade 63.

pruebas

Two more sold:

Bowers & Merena World Coin Auction, New York, January 2010, Lot 7528
Bowers & Merena World Coin Auction, New York, January 2010, Lot 7529

And one more upcoming:

Cayón Auction, Madrid, February 2010, Lot 2666