Anyone have time to spot grade a grade?

bking

OK, I'm trying to take a positive approach to my frustration with buying raw cards, so I thought I'd perform a "sanity check" and see if maybe I'm just too damn tough of a grader. I've "only" submitted about 100-150 cards, and other than my very first free submission, I can count the number of cards on one hand that came back lower than my pregrade, so maybe I AM too tough.

To that end, I'm hoping that a few of you will weigh in with your opinions on how this item will grade and why.

Thanks in advance
Bob

1954

I would think that card would grade a PSA 6 because of the chipping on the right hand side along with the top right corner. I have not had any luck with grading lately so I might not have the best eye for this.

Shane

fattymacs

I totally agree with Shane.

bking

I appreciate the feedback, and would LOVE to hear from more folks.

However, let me post this now. I got this scan from an current auction, from one of the more active Raw sellers I run across, and one that I was considering taking another chance on.

This is the item description: 1970 Topps Baseball set break - # 2 - NRMINT-MINT. This super high grade beauty has 4 razor sharp corners, nice original gloss with clean borders and NO wrinkles,creases or blemishes along with a clean back..As nice as the day it was issued back in 70, this one looks like a solid 8.

I'm just SO out on trying to buy raw ...... unless someone on here wants to restore my faith.

itzagoner

every picture tells a story. don't it?

what appears as obvious, usually is.....you and i both know that is not a near mint card.....if that is what you seek, move on and invest more time and effort into your goals, be patient and wise.

remember, these are people who are trying to sell you stuff based on their opinions, not yours.

tigerdean

I also say a 6 and maybe a 6.5 at the most. They are going to hit you for the chipping, the top right corner ding, and the L to R centering. JMO

bking

<< <i>every picture tells a story. don't it?

what appears as obvious, usually is.....you and i both know that is not a near mint card.....if that is what you seek, move on and invest more time and effort into your goals, be patient and wise.

remember, these are people who are trying to sell you stuff based on their opinions, not yours. >>


I hear ya, and understand exactly what you mean. My only quibble with the "opinion" part is that when you sell tons of raw AND graded cards, your opinion SHOULD fall closer to the consensus shouldn't it? I give the small guys a pass on their opinions, but the large movers of raw deserve to get called on their "blatant optiimism", shall we say?

Indy78

Ex-Mt 6. 3 of 4 corners moderately touched and rough right edge.

favoritethings

Caveat emptor. No better than a 6 (unless the grader was out drinking the night before - which apparently has been known to happen) for sure - top corners and l/r edges. How about this one - I bought a 1956 pirate team card described as near mint by a volume seller who broke a 56 set. I received it and pegged it between a 5 and a 6 - PSA thought otherwise and sent me a 4 (OUCH!)!! Hmmm - Near mint?? And life goes on. Happy collecting.

-Howard

bking

<< <i>Caveat emptor. No better than a 6 (unless the grader was out drinking the night before - which apparently has been known to happen) for sure - top corners and l/r edges. How about this one - I bought a 1956 pirate team card described as near mint by a volume seller who broke a 56 set. I received it and pegged it between a 5 and a 6 - PSA thought otherwise and sent me a 4 (OUCH!)!! Hmmm - Near mint?? And life goes on. Happy collecting.

-Howard >>



Ouch....

I guess I'd be a little less cranky about it if these big movers got the volume of Negs commensurate with their grading (that didn't get removed, of course).. At least this guy posts decent enough scans to make an semi-informed decision, but scans hide a lot even at high-res.

Anyway... I'm done ranting for the week.

ahkmedbinladen

Ahhhh the ever tough 70 Diego Segui. Very tough card. The sellers description sounds like Klinger. If that card would grade a Psa 8...Klinger would already have it holdered. He is well aware of the tough cards. I agree with 1954 and the others on the grade.

Dboneesq

Bob,

I agree with the other posts. Will PSA grade it an "8"? NO WAY IN HELL!

The L/R centering in not very eye appealing ... 3 of the 4 corners are a bit worn and the right edge is pretty rough.. My guess would be that it would wind up in a "6" holder.

I know you said this seller deals in a lot of RAW. Does he sell graded as well? If he does then there is NO WAY I'd be buying any raw from him.

Be patient ... and run away from this one! LOL

bobsbbcards

Card is a 5 or 6.

If it was my card, and I was selling it raw on eBay, this would be my description:

"1970 Topps #2 Diego Segui EX+. Card is off-center to the right and bottom, upper left corner shows touch (bordering on soft), right two corners show light touches with upper corner showing some white, right edge shows chipping."

I would also have included a scan of the back.

Why do people buy from this seller?

bking

<< <i>Ahhhh the ever tough 70 Diego Segui. Very tough card. The sellers description sounds like Klinger. If that card would grade a Psa 8...Klinger would already have it holdered. He is well aware of the tough cards. I agree with 1954 and the others on the grade. >>




... and there's the crux of my point - the seller KNOWS it's not an 8. It's not a difference of opinion.

Dialj

Based on the top corners and bottom right, my guess is PSA 6 or 6.5. JMHO.

WeekendHacker

This is what a PSA-8 looks like - the one shown will garner a 6.5; but only if the grader got a piece from his old lady that morning the same way the grader who graded this one.

Dboneesq

Wow Hacker ... is that yours? How did it get an "8", especially with that lower left corner!!!!!!

divecchia

<< <i>Card is a 5 or 6.

If it was my card, and I was selling it raw on eBay, this would be my description:

"1970 Topps #2 Diego Segui EX+. Card is off-center to the right and bottom, upper left corner shows touch (bordering on soft), right two corners show light touches with upper corner showing some white, right edge shows chipping."

I would also have included a scan of the back.

Why do people buy from this seller? >>



Your descriptions Bob are always great....Donato

WeekendHacker

<< <i>Wow Hacker ... is that yours? How did it get an "8", especially with that lower left corner!!!!!! >>

The grader got busy with his old lady that morning and was in a good mood.

jmoran19

<< <i>Wow Hacker ... is that yours? How did it get an "8", especially with that lower left corner!!!!!! >>



PSA 8's can have 2 "touched" corners if the other 2 corners are mint.

Of course when your talking 1971 all bets are off John

jmoran19

oh, forgot to add, I don't know why Diego is so tough as he isn't a corner or edge card?

Dboneesq

<< <i>

<< <i>Wow Hacker ... is that yours? How did it get an "8", especially with that lower left corner!!!!!! >>


PSA 8's can have 2 "touched" corners if the other 2 corners are mint.
Of course when your talking 1971 all bets are off John >>



John ... I realize that ... but did you look at the other 3 corners????? Aint nuttin mint 'bout dem!

jmoran19

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Wow Hacker ... is that yours? How did it get an "8", especially with that lower left corner!!!!!! >>


PSA 8's can have 2 "touched" corners if the other 2 corners are mint.
Of course when your talking 1971 all bets are off John >>



John ... I realize that ... but did you look at the other 3 corners????? Aint nuttin mint 'bout dem! >>



The grader must have been a little hungover and thought the 2 right corners were mint then

metsfan

Think you should just look at the card, and not worry about the description. Most sellers of raw cards tend to overgrade their cards by 1-2 grades. This is not always on purpose, sometimes you just think your cards are better then they are. If it's a good scan try to get an idea from it. If the seller sells raw and graded just avoid his/her raw cards. If they sell just raw cards, then you may do ok grading the card(s). Feedback can also give you an idea of what kind of raw cards they sell.

bobsbbcards

<< <i>If the seller sells raw and graded just avoid his/her raw cards. >>


I sell raw and graded. Some cards aren't appropriate for grading (see card at beginning of thread). Sellers should describe everything that's wrong with their cards. If they are overgrading their raw cards (under-describing the defects), avoid them.

macboube

If that is a PSA 8, I have several PSA 8's that will become PSA 10's on my next review! Oh, and that means all my 10's will achieve a new standard of excellence bumping to the ridiculous status of PSA GEM GEM GEM MINT 12's!!!!!!!!

Bunker

<< <i>

<< <i>If the seller sells raw and graded just avoid his/her raw cards. >>


I sell raw and graded. Some cards aren't appropriate for grading (see card at beginning of thread). Sellers should describe everything that's wrong with their cards. If they are overgrading their raw cards (under-describing the defects), avoid them. >>



I agree, I sell both also and there are a lot of commons from the 60's and 70's that are not worth grading. If you find a seller that grades accurately it shouldn't matter.

bbuckner22

I sell both raw and graded cards, I don't think that means you need to stay away from that sellers raw cards. There are several factors to consider, I'm going to list some that have pertained to me. I'm also not going to try and defend (not my listing)the NM/MT grade of the 1970 Diego Segui card, other than say that there is a scan of it, so we can all form our own opinions on such cards.

1 I've bought quite a few sets that had anywhere from 15-50% of the cards already graded. In some cases the raw were not up to par with the graded cards, or I'm sure in some cases the collector didn't have unlimited funds to keep giving it to PSA. I recently bought a 62 set with many high grade PSA cards as well as some beautiful raw cards. I didn't want to sit on a set that I paid big money for, so I broke it up and included the high grade raw cards, even though I was fully aware that I was leaving money on the table.

2 I've bought a couple of sets in which the seller had owned them from their original year and had either no interest or knowledge of card grading. About 3 months ago I broke up a 1960 set like that, even though many of the cards (including the Mantle AS) might have pulled 8's or 9's. But my thinking on that set was I picked it up for a reasonable price and did not want to cherry pick only the high $$ cards to grade. I sold the entire set raw, I have heard from more than a few of my regular buyers how hard it is to find certain stars cards unslabbed and in high grade condition. I just recently purchased a 1968 set from a guy who has not touched these cards in over 40 years, all bought in 68. I'd say 80% of the cards are possible 8's or higher, incuding the Bench and Ryan. But again, I'm not going to cherry pick the stars and grade only them, I will sell the entire set ungraded. However, I will include 50-60 graded cards that I have in my inventory (most from deadbeat Ebay bidders) in that set break up. There was another instance when I bought a high end raw 67 set. Many of the low pop cards were mint and centered, so I took about 50 or so and submitted them. Like almost any other single year submission, I got 7's, 8's, 8.5, and a few 9's. I only sent in cards that I though had a chance at 8.5's or higher, but that did not mean that the other cards, stars included were not up to the same quality.

3 Another scenario is a set that is broken from several different sources. I have a set that is 90% complete I'm breaking soon that has been built from PSA graded lots and ungraded lots. In these cases I rarely if ever submit cards from the raw lot, unless it's something I might need for my collection.

4 The last example I'll bring up is a 64 set I have that has about 100 graded cards I submitted myself. Again, this does not mean that raw cards I'll call NM/MT are over graded. In this case I did send most of the low pops and stars in to PSA, but felt other cards even in high grade condition might struggle to cover the grading fees if submitted. I'm sure we have all sent the sure fire 9 to PSA only to get a 7 or 8 holder. Almost every set I deal with has cards that you can't sell for $10 in an 8, so it's not worth the fee for that outside chance of landing a 9.

With all of that said, even though I make my living selling cards, I'm a collector too. I have had my fair share of over graded raw cards sent to me as well. I don't think giving the seller a negative is the answer, unless he is unresponsive or unwilling to take the cards back. There are actually quite a few of my regular buyers that don't buy raw to submit, that's just the way they collect. They probably have a lot more money to spend on cards since they don't have any grading fees. One such buyer bought a card ( 64 Flood PSA 7) and asked me if I could give him advice on how to crack it out of the holder. I told him I didn't the card would grade any higher if submitted again, he said he just wanted the card raw and was having trouble finding one. Can't say I agreed with that logic, but his preference.

bking

I appreciate all the interesting opinions and personal experiences. While I've enjoyed collecting for some time, I have only recently "immersed" myself in the community, so to speak, and I'm learning more every day.

bking

<< <i>oh, forgot to add, I don't know why Diego is so tough as he isn't a corner or edge card? >>



Damn good question. Years ago, I would have said it was simply that he's the first card in a collector's stack or box, as a lot of kids I knew had no use for Team cards. Nowadays, when so much vending stock has appeared, I don't buy that answer anymore.

fiveniner

I can say 6 at least.

WeekendHacker

I was looking at some 1970 topps PSA on ebay and someone has the Segui in PSA-8 for sale.

bking

<< <i>I was looking at some 1970 topps PSA on ebay and someone has the Segui in PSA-8 for sale. >>



Shhhhhhh........ :-)

mbothner

Here's my PSA 8. It is a fairly low pop. Took me a little while to get this one. Centering always seems to be an issue with this card. This one is very close to a qualifier.