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Errors for Christmas - Redux - Finally had PCGS certify my error
jmcu12
Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭
The dime I have had in a roll of blank planchets for about 12 years.
Enjoy!
Thanks to Mike Diamond for help in the attribution and to PCGS (Fred Weinberg) for the verification and certification!
The obverse you can see part of the We in the motto and on the reverse you can see where the leafs and stalks were starting to form.
Enjoy!
Thanks to Mike Diamond for help in the attribution and to PCGS (Fred Weinberg) for the verification and certification!
The obverse you can see part of the We in the motto and on the reverse you can see where the leafs and stalks were starting to form.
Awarded latest "YOU SUCK!": June 11, 2014
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Comments
bob
Yes, I think that I see what you see, so we all see it?
Thoughts?
The press must have been coming to a halt, so that the pressure was relatively light. A full strike at that angle would have chopped clear through the planchet. Either the press operator noticed that the die holder had failed, or the press itself had some sort of fail-safe device.
Look at the 1880 cent with greatly misaligned clash marks.
Never seen a coin like this before. Way cool!
TD
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Of minor note is that the obverse die shows collar clash.
Here's an almost identical error in a government-issued Israeli greetings medal:
The first strike was centered and weak. The second strike shows a 50% horizontal misalignment of the hammer die. The hammer die was also massively tilted. After the first strike the die either fell out of its recess or broke across its shaft, allowing the working part to drift laterally. When the die shifted, it scraped through the Hebrew letters in the upper left quadrant.
Now the notorious red x.
Edited to add: fixed now. Thanks.
1. It is unlikely that a counterfeiter would think to create such an unusual error.
2. It is highly unlikely that a counterfeit die would show strong collar clash.
3. This error does have precedents, as I've shown. In addition to this Israeli medal, there's a Martha Washington trial strike cent that shows a similar error, although the misalignment isn't as great.
In the end, you have to trust your instincts and go with the probabilities. Metaphysical certitude is unattainable for a coin like this.
I like it for genuine.
TD
TD
http://www.minterrornews.com/news-11-14-06-die_clashes.html
More have been discovered since this article came out.
<< <i>You don't have to go back to the 19th century for radically misaligned die clashes. At least a dozen radically misaligned and tilted die clashes are known among Lincoln cents from 1992 to 2000. Some are presented here:
http://www.minterrornews.com/news-11-14-06-die_clashes.html
More have been discovered since this article came out. >>
True, and a wonderful assortment of pictures you have, but has anybody ever seen an actual coin struck from such radically misaligned dies, instead of just the clashmark evidence that the misalignment happened?
TD
<< <i>You don't have to go back to the 19th century for radically misaligned die clashes. At least a dozen radically misaligned and tilted die clashes are known among Lincoln cents from 1992 to 2000. Some are presented here:
http://www.minterrornews.com/news-11-14-06-die_clashes.html
More have been discovered since this article came out. >>
Here is the link. Great images!
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>I'm not aware of any cents struck by these radically misaligned, tilted, and pivoted dies. We only have the clashes. That itself is a bit of a mystery. To me it indicates that the clashes probably occurred before the press started up, possibly during installation. The clashes are always light, and they show a peculiar consistency (but not 100% consistency) in directionality and severity. >>
That's why I think this dime is so fantastic. It may be unique.
Do you think that it qualifies as a new type of error, or is it just an extreme subtype of the Misaligned Die error?
TD
If you think about it, an extreme vertical misalignment almost demands the presence of a major horizontal misalignment. When the die tilts, the pole that tilts down must also angle inward. That is, unless, the die itself has shifted laterally to compensate for the downward tilt. All the extreme tilted die errors I've seen on U.S. and foreign coins have also featured a major horizontal misalignment.
With a lesser degree of die tilt, you may not see a horizontal misalignment. That's the case with this half dollar:
The die was tilted down on the right side, and it also has a 90 degree rotated die error. I assume that it was the hammer (obverse) die that was both tilted and rotated.
<< <i>
That's why I think this dime is so fantastic. It may be unique.
TD >>
If not unique, then certainly very rare. But if I may introduce a paradoxical thought, unique errors are not all that rare.
There are hundreds of basic error/variety categories in a comprehensive checklist that can be found at this address:
http://hermes.csd.net/~coneca/content/ErrorChecklist.pdf
A rough, back-of-the-envelope calculation leads me to think that there may be half-a-million potential unique two-error combinations. The number of unique three-error combinations would register in the millions.
Here's an Ethiopian coin with a major vertical and horizontal misalignment. Not nearly as severe as the dime, of course.
<< <i>I think it should be very carefully examined to make sure it is not some kind of counterfeit. I say this only because so little of the die is visible. It seems to me that anyone with a fake die could that. I think this is a large hurdle to jump over for this error. >>
Rick's point is more germane to this discussion than I first indicated. Here is a cent with a flipover, in-collar double strike where the second strike was strongly tilted. The second strike was delivered by fake dies inside a fake collar. It's a rather convincing counterfeit, as it shows sharp, but incomplete penetration of first-strike details through the second strike design. That's something one usually associates with genuine double strikes, but it can be duplicated by skilled malefactors.
I was looking through Heritage's upcoming errors and saw that their Dollar was struck through plastic - could mine be as well?
SAE Struck Through Plastic
<< <i>TTT.
I was looking through Heritage's upcoming errors and saw that their Dollar was struck through plastic - could mine be as well?
SAE Struck Through Plastic >>
Plastic is the most common foreign matter associated with silver eagles. It is evidently derived from the clear plastic sheet that covers the tray in which the planchets are transported in.
However, the blobby nature of your strike-through suggests a different material. I have seen silver eagles and at least one business strike cent struck through an irregular, brownish, rubbery mass. The composition and origin of the material is unknown.
I knew it was really something!
TD
Visit my son's caringbridge page @ Runner's Caringbridge Page
"To Give Anything Less than Your Best, Is to Sacrifice the Gift" - Steve Prefontaine
<< <i>The dime I have had in a roll of blank planchets for about 12 years.
Enjoy!
Thanks to Mike Diamond for help in the attribution and to PCGS (Fred Weinberg) for the verification and certification!
The obverse you can see part of the We in the motto and on the reverse you can see where the leafs and stalks were starting to form.
>>
A reasonably informative slab label. I would have put "50% Hor & Vert MAD; weak strike". But the weakness is self-evident, so it's not a crucial omission.
http://www.coinworld.com/articles/weak-tilted-misaligned-pre-1983-lincoln-cent-/
The design rim appears on the obverse after a light impact from a tilted and
horizontally misaligned hammer die, at top left with close-up below. At top right,
the center of the Lincoln Memorial is on the reverse, with close-up below.
A weak, tilted, and horizontally misaligned die clash can be seen to the left of Lincoln’s bust
on this 1998 cent. The 60 percent misalignment is the current record-holder among the growing
roster of radically misaligned and tilted die clashes known among Lincoln cents from the last decade
of the 20th century.
Weak, tilted, misaligned pre-1983 Lincoln cent surfaces
By Mike Diamond | Sept. 29, 2012 10:00 a.m.
Article first published in 2012-10-08, Expert Advice section of Coin World
The Feb. 1, 2010, “Collectors’ Clearinghouse” column featured an undated dime that was weakly struck by a hammer (obverse) die that was both horizontally and vertically misaligned. The horizontal misalignment amounted to 50 percent while the extent of die tilt was estimated at about 15 degrees.
At the time, I thought this was likely to remain a unique error. However, a nearly identical error — this time in the form of a copper-alloy (pre-1983) cent — appeared as Lot 45 in the January 2012 auction Catalog No. 49 issued by Jim’s Coins (www.jimscoins.net).
As shown in the accompanying photos, the hammer (obverse) die exhibits a horizontal misalignment of 50 percent. The only portion of the obverse die to leave an impression was the rim gutter. The stronger of the two sunken, curved impressions represents the medial wall of the rim gutter.
On the coin, this simultaneously represents the edge of the field and the internal margin of the design rim. The weaker impression represents the lateral margin of the rim gutter. On the coin this represents the outer margin of the design rim. No design is present on the obverse face, so I can’t determine if the obverse die was rotated (it wasn’t on the dime). The strike is even weaker than the dime’s and is too weak for me to estimate the amount of die tilt.
The reverse design consists of the middle two columns and middle three bays of the Lincoln Memorial along with Lincoln’s statue.
The weak strike likely led Numismatic Guaranty Corp. to label this specimen a “die adjustment strike.”
Setting aside the challenges of determining whether any weak strike is an escapee from a test run, one wonders why any test would involve a die so horribly out of position.
Ultimately, it is impossible to authenticate a strike this weak and incomplete. While the planchet is genuine, there’s always the possibility that someone administered a light whack with fake dies. However, its “separated at birth” resemblance to the earlier-reported dime (a coin whose authenticity is beyond dispute) leaves me reasonably confident that this is a genuine Mint product.
I have never seen a horizontal misalignment greater than 50 percent on any coin, domestic or foreign. Is this, then, the upper limit for modern presses? Perhaps.
However, a second line of evidence suggests that this limit can be surpassed. The evidence comes in the form of weak, tilted, and horizontally misaligned die clashes found on Lincoln cents dating from 1991 to 2000.
More than two dozen of these unusual die clashes are cataloged on www.maddieclashes.com. While the scale of the misalignment varies markedly, most exceed 20 percent, with a considerable number in the 30 to 40 percent range. However, one specimen, discovered by Robert Piazza and cataloged as MDC-1c-1998-02, shows a horizontal misalignment of around 60 percent at the time of the clash (see photos).
The curved, raised line behind Lincoln’s bust is an impression of the edge of the field portion of the die. Faint incuse letter traces can be seen along the internal (concave) margin of the ridge. Robert (“BJ”) Neff, who took the photographs and generated the overlay, has identified the letter traces as the er of america.
The relevance of these clashes to actual coins struck by horizontally misaligned dies is unclear.
No cents actually struck with this kind of misalignment have been reported from this time period. I have previously speculated that these unusual clashes took place during installation, rather than during a press run (July 12, 2010, “Collector’s Clearinghouse”).
Lateral movement of the die assembly may be different (and more tightly constrained) during a press run.
Large lateral shifts would necessarily involve movement of the entire die assembly. The recess that houses the die wouldn’t accommodate such large shifts. And even if enough space did open up to permit misalignments of this magnitude, the hammer die would assuredly fall out.
<< <i>Interesting. Is there a little bit of die-struck design at 6:00 on the photo to the right? If so, can you make out what it is? >>
Ah. Yes, it would have been a lot clearer if I said that this is a nickel planchet.
The top part of the faint area on the right is the FIVE of FIVE CENTS. You should be able to make out at least the F-I-V part pretty clearly now that you know what you're looking at (the E is also clear when viewed in hand).
The part nearer the rim would be the end of UNITED and the start of STATES. It's much less clear.
Lots of possibilities here, all of them gloriously strange.