Collecting a set vs. Collecting stars QUESTION

ydsotter

I didn't anticipate that I was going to feel this way... but... now I pretty much have all of the Star cards in my set in psa 8's and 9's.
Now I am in a situation where I need several hundred commons which will run me anywhere between $3000 and $5000 over a long period of time.
and...
no name guys... that book at around $1 or $3...
and I am wondering what your thoughts are on spending thousands of dollars completing a set versus spending those thousands of dollars on other high end star cards from other years.
Is it your love for the set? the satisfaction and resolve of completing a set?
What proplels your drive to complete the set?
I love 1972 topps basketball... but it's just a 264 card set.
some of you are bulding extensive 600 - 700+ baseball card sets.
I have seen some psa 8 commons of 1970's baseball sell at prices comparable to hall of famers...
anyhow...
I still feel committed to my small 264 card set... but It amazes me to see some of you stay focused and committed to these 600+ card sets.
kudos to you...
What about in terms of investment?
is an enitre high grade 1969 topps baseball set a better investment than a high grade collection of every year of aaron mays and clemente?
or is the investment aspect less important than the value and challenge of doing the whole set.
thanks for reading this and sharing any thoughts you may have.
-geoff

thegemmintman

"Just a small 264 card set?" That's a very good sized set ydsotter. Don't get roped into these 700 card monster sets unless you're ready for a new level of pain. The guys on this board that collect multiple monster sets are sick, sick people . They're on this board because their families have left them, their bosses have fired them, and misery loves company .

zardoz51

and your point is gemmint?

Merely because I collect a 752 card set and have no life, no money, no love, no family, no home, no job, no future, is no reason to persecute those of us who thought that was a good idea at the time. I just picked up another 8 cards today...that gives me a 1% raise in the completion percentage....O, life is sweet...hahahahahahahahahahah (sounds from a demented man)

thegemmintman

LOL, well you went in with good intentions.

Anyway your Kellogg's collecting makes up for all your other collecting transgressions.

ydsotter

You guys are awesome. Yeah, I have spent over $50.00 on a psa 9 common from my set. (my high bid was $100.01)
I suppose that I could have got a psa 8 of a hofer for the same price but...
had to have that common... that common was the all time leading scorer in the history of the ABA...
can you guess his name?
-geoff

zardoz51

and speaking of Kelloggs....another dozen of those pesky commons went out today to the slabatorium. I'll get to my rightful #2 spot soon! hahahahhahahahahah(more demented noises)

zardoz51

yd,

gee, I have no idea...(ABA question)


sounds like you're as demented as we are....fun isn't it?

thegemmintman

Dan Issel? Anyway it doesn't matter. We don't know stats here. We only know SMR values, Ebay recent auctions, Registry rankings, and how many cards Zardoz is away from finishing his '70 Kellogg's 3-D set.

ydsotter

I suppose I am pretty demented~
7 years of college down the drain!
wait!
that will be my new tag!
"7 years of college down the drain" - John Belushi

ydsotter

Louie Dampier

zardoz51

would of had a Boog Powell go off as well. It was one of those SGC 96's. When I got it out of the slab, checked it under the high intensity light, there was a freakin' light scratch on the surface and a small crease at the top on the reverse. Neither was visible through the holder.

zardoz51

7 years?

A Masters in underwater basket weaving?

ydsotter

Master of Divinity and a Teacher Prep program in History was grad school.... Now, I am a special education teacher... (yds=Yale Divinity School)(otter=nickname) and the undergrad degree was some general Ba... in how to run the world or something like that~

zardoz51

By the way gemmint,

In light of the constant upgrading to your 70 set, you are going to be untouchable. So what are you going to do when you have every card in a 10? Let's face it, you're well on the way.

I guess that you could travel to Calcutta, India and tell the people over there that you're untouchable. I'm sure that you would love the reaction.

zardoz51

A Reverend!

Excellent, this room is full of sinners.........You can start with gemmint!

thegemmintman

Zardoz, I'm going to consign it with that Ebay seller who is handling the all PSA 10 '86 Fleer set. Only my buy it now price will be 2 million $$ and my starting bid will be 1 million $$.

Actually, I'll probably contact the Kellogg's Museum (there really is one) and exchange it for a lifetime supply of assorted cereals.

Come on, I'm not a sinner .

jaxxr

Great question Ydsotter
I have been thinking about asking for opinions on a similar situation. I started adult collecting in the late 70s and for some reason I want to keep a nice set from that time peroid, and I also must include some cards I got raw back in that era, I may send them in for grading but I don't want a set in which I bought all the graded ones. I chose the 79 BB set because it's the hardest to find in good shape via centering etc. in my personal inventory, which has over 3000 cards by vending cases etc. for each of several different years. It is probably not the best designed one but to me , in this 5-year span, it's the biggest challange.
Can it possibly be worth grading all 726 ?????
Cards equal to a PSA 8 NQ or better are suitable for this set, so is a Wanye Gross (DP) card which I judge as a marginal 8 wise to send in for grading ? Even if I honestly think it's an 8 with a good shot at a 9 ? Regardless I might still get a 7, what if I did get an 8 ? is this super common double-printed cardboard memory economically sensible to be graded? Wouldn'y it be somewhat wiser to just put it in a soft sleeve then a top loader, seal the top with acid-free paper, then perhaps label/color code the holder neatly for my collection ? I will have the top 10-15% value-wise graded and probably at least fifty or so commons I feel are 9 or 10 style.
Am I just nuts, should I spend my grading $ on 50s cards and 1973 which I also like ?

ydsotter

Thanks for your insights...
I guess one just has to be really gung ho on a set.
My problemn is that I want every set and every card I can think of.
But... I really wanted to build a set... I imagine completing a set will be a uphoric experience~ it took me almost 6 months to decide what set I would do.
now... I want to do a baseball set as well~
and I am torn between 1960, 1965, 1969 and 1971~
or maybe 1958 in psa 6's
I dunno~
I will probably change my mind 40000000 times... but I just spent a wad of cash grading commons... enough cash to pick up a nice mickey mantle you know?
so....
I think I'll just stick to my one set and supress my compulive need to start a baseball set until I am at least 50%...

robr1967

I saw this thread and wanted to drop in my 2 cents.

I think set collecting is the way to go. It is much more fun doing so, but then also a little bit more frustrating...

For instance I am working on the 1955 AA FB set. It is only a 100 card set, and that is the thing that draws people to it.

They figure wow, it is only 100 cards, how tough could it actually be. Well, if your would try to put together a PSA-8 set, that is where the fun is. There are 2 cards in the set with only a pop of 11 PSA-8's ever being graded.

Now both of these cards are commons. But when and if you ever see one come up for sale publicly, you can be willing to bet that it will sell for a minimum of $300, when it used to be listed as a $70 card.

Now, with that being said. The reason I enjoy the set collecting is this. 11 people can complete the set. How many people can have a Mantle rookie? Furthermore, youget the feeling of accomplishment of being able to track down the ever allusive cards needed for your set as well.

A story about that is here. Once I called a dealer to register for an up coming auction. Out of the blue I asked them if they had any AA FB cards, and they told me which ones they had. Well, it turned out they had one of the tougher cards to find in the set, in inventory. So, that made my day as well as week.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Comments?

Rob

bosoxphan

Thrill of the hunt. I think half the fun of collecting a set is the actual tracking down of the particular cards. That's the reason I'd never buy an already completed set, there's no fun in that whatsoever for me.

ydsotter

Yeah.. you are right.. it is pretty fun...
I have always had a few pretty obscure and hard to find cards on my wantlists...
I am a darryl strawberry and doc gooden collector.
and have a handful of bgs 9 1/1's of their early issues.
the part that is fun is that I paid about $5 to $10 for each~
with collecting a set... you have endless little victories and thwartings~
I am already loving it.

mikeschmidt

I prefer both. I love the thrill of collecting a set of a particular players' cards (Mike Schmidt) and the thrill of putting a complete baseball set together (1955 Bowman). Both have their thrills and anguishes to me. Both will always have their difficult cards to find, too. The Mike Schmidt collecting brings back the memories of baseball games in my youth. The 1955 Bowman set is a drive to build the best of something, and connect more closely with baseball of yesteryear. I have actually found the Mike Schmidt collection much more easy to complete in high grade (basically a function of persistence and money), whereas with 1955 Bowman, it is a matter of finding (m)any of the cards in Excellent or better condition -- some of which just do not seem to be available.

When I consider the time, money and effort I have put into my 1955 Bowman set, I honestly get pretty frightened when I think of tackling the T205 set next.

MS

koby

Here's my $0.02. While I appreciate the dedication that goes into collecting a complete set, I cannot justify this for newer sets. By newer set, I mean a set such as the 1979 Topps baseball set.

Mind you, this was the very set that I collected in my youth and Ozzie Smith is one of my favorite players of all time. This monster of a set consists of 752 cards. While singles are found in ungraded form, you would have to send them in yourself if your goal is for a completely slabbed set. Does this really make sense? Even by the most favorable rates that PSA has for bulk submissions, grading this set would cost an arm and a leg. (752 x $6.00 = $4512) If this endeavor is solely for the joy of the pursuit and personal satisfaction, more power to you. But let's look at other reasons why people collect.

(1) Is this set ever going to make you money? I don't have a crystal ball, but a doubt that you will ever recoup you money. A quick glance at ebay tells me the HOF stars such as Bench, Murray, Schidt can be had for about ten dollars each. Chances are the prices are not going to spike to twenty in the near future. If star sell for so little, what will we be able to expect from commons (all 700+ of them)?

(2) Is this a set that your grandchildren will appreciate? One day you will be dead and unless you've made arrangements to be buried with the 79s, you will leave the set to a grandchild or someone else. I imagine the youngster's reaction to be, "Wow. A 1979 set. This is from the end of an era when Topps had a monopoly on the card business and overproduced the hell out of baseball cards."

(3) Is this a set that you card collecting peers would be impressed with? Maybe. But more so for the fact that someone took the time to build a set that very few collect. Some would also be impressed that six dollars was spent to slab a common that has a retail value of twenty five cents. They might be impressed but not envious and certainly not becasue they admired the achievement.

$4512 for PSA encasulation alone not taking into consideration the money spent for the cards themselves. Now let's compare this with a collection of a star player. I have calculated for the price of the PSA encapsulation, you could instead own a nice group of Hank Aaron cards.

A quick glance of recent ebay prices indicate that if you keep your 1979s in your top-loaders, you will be able to purchase a 1954 Topps rookie card, a 1955 Topps, a 1956 Topps, and a 1957 Topps card.....all PSA 8 NM-MT.

Let us ask the same questions posed above.

(1) Are the Aaron cards going to appreciate? Again, I do not have a crystal ball, but PSA 8 cards of first tier HOFers have done pretty well in the last five years. There is a bit of a lull in terms of prices for high dollar items such as the 1954 card. Not too long, Superior reported prices greater than the SMR and I have seen two go for little over $3000 in the past three weeks. This could either mean that this is a good time to buy or the beginning of the downward slide. In either event, my money is on the Aaron cards.

(2) Will your heirs appreciate the Aaron cards? Even non-baseball card collectors can appreciate the Aaron cards. Aaron not only broke a long-standing record but he did so at a time when the country was going through important changes. The 1954 is one of the most historically significant cards of all times.

(3) Will other collectors be impressed? There are very few cards that are as respected universally than the 1954 Aaron rookie. Whether you collect refractors or tobacco cards, you will recognize this card immediately. While the Aaron cards are not scarce by any measure, I don't think that even the Merkels and Fogels of the world would scoff at PSA 8 versions of Aaron's first four cards.

I know different people collect for different reasons. Certainly the three hypothetical questions posed above can be answered in a million ways, and certainly there are millions of other questions that can be asked. I am just giving you my thinking process fro choosing star cards over complete sets. Most people on this board think that it is sensible to spend thousands of dollars slabbing twenty-five cent commons. I do not agree.

zardoz51

Koby

You are correct, but the graded set collector has the fun of the chase. I can pick up the phone and buy an Aaron PSA 8 rookie. It's just a matter of money. I am putting a 1971 set together. I cannot get (for example), #2 Doc Ellis in NM-MT. None of the 71 guys has succeeded so far. We go to the shows and wade through boxes and binders, it's fun chasing the most common of commons. We get excited over cards of has-been and never-were players. It just puts a different twist on the game.

Graded set collecting is here to stay. Some say that the value of commons will plummet as dealers submit their stocks of these to be slabbed, but these are the same inventories that the condition wary collectors have picked and poked through over the years. The Stars abound. The majority of worthwhile examples were slabbed long ago. The stars were always pampered. The commons were just that, common. They bounced around in the boxes over the years, and show the wear. Time will tell.

ydsotter

Man! That's a riot that you mentioned the 1979 set!!!
That's the year I started collecting!!! Someone just offered me the whole set NM/MT for like $100 in a binder~ and I haven't bitten...
If I were going to do any baseball set... I'd have to go with 1971 topps. I say this because... like the 1972 topps basketball set... I am infatuated with the commons as well. Just love the design. Which.. is why I decided to do a set in the first place. I imagine that I will have a few grand more into the set than its worth... (just spent another $30 on a psa 9 common) but that's ok...
Maybe Mr. Mint's grandson will offer my grandson a handsome bounty for it one day...
and... by the way....
How psycho is the 1971 topps set?
I see a psa 8 ernie banks up on eBay now... it's one of my all time favorite cards... what do you think it will cost me? $300? more? less?
thanks,
-geoff

Todd

I agree that part of the reason to collect sets is the thrill of the chase. Since we are talking about a 79 set, does anyone have any guesses what a complete 79 set would sell for in PSA 8 or 9 form. Would it sell for more that the grading cost? I realize that it would make a difference on which cards were 8 and which cards were 9. I would be interested in hearing some guesses though. I am putting the 74 Topps baseball set together in PSA 8 form, mainly by having the cards graded myself, I have always wondered if I could my money back when I was finished by selling it as a set.

zardoz51

AArrgghhh

The Banks!!!!!


There might be a certain 71 collector who shall remain nameless who has his eye on that card................................

koby

<< <i>I have always wondered if I could my money back when I was finished by selling it as a set. >>



I think this is a very valid concern. While this is not a money making endeavor for most people, I'm sure most of us like the idea of our collections having value. If a set is completely worthless, would you still continue to pur money into it? The thrill of the chase would still be there; the childhood memories would still be there. But how much fun can you have knowing that you are throwing away your money?

Todd

Has anyone ever seen a full graded set from the 70's or even the 60's on Ebay or from another auction house?

mikeschmidt

It has not happened with any of the major sets yet.

1963 Fleer - yes. 1969 Topps Super - yes. But not any of the major/behemoth sets. Heck -- I think that there are probably less than a dozen complete post-1965 Topps sets fully graded at this point, with most of those being completed in the last year.

Wayne8348

I have often wondered what my 1965 set would sell for complete in all psa 8's. SMR is under $20,000 but it can't be done for that. I doubt that it would even bring SMR.

Wayne

jaxxr

Koby,
You have raised some great points. It does now seem logical to get graded stars primarily, and a few semis and commons you really like, or happen to have raw in gereat 9 or 10 shape. The 79 BB is still a tough set to get in really nice condition and provides a true effort to complete. As you say, profit should not be a main concern but... unless one is rich or foolish, some cost/value factors should be considered.

Comparing the Aaron card run to the 79 ( or similar ) set is unfair but truly realistic. Set collecting is a unique thing of its own and is here to stay, as others have said. But you are correct there are other themes for graded collecting which may be quite interesting. I am going to ponder who ( or what ) I might like to have a nice run of their cards. The modern guys have way way too many cards to even consider. Cost and what I may have ungraded at this time will be factors.

These differing ideas combined with mutual appreciation for almost any higher graded cards is one part of the hobby which makes it so enjoyable.l

koby

Indeed, I agree that set collecting is great fun. There are actually a few sets that I am putting together. My were actually my own struggles in deciding whether to collect key cards or complete sets.

I cannot even imagine collecting a seven hundred card set, because the task just seems too daunting. My compromise is collecting a forty eight card set in the 1933 Sport Kings. The set is packed with stars such as Babe Ruth, Ty Cobbs, Jim Thorpe, and Bobby Jones. Even the ones deemed commons were stars in their own right in their respective sports.

Even though this set is much smaller by comparison, sometimes I wonder why I am buying PSA 7 cards of cross-country skiiers or aviators for two hundred dollars each. Because my allocated hobby dollars is somewhat small and my eyes wander often to cards outside the scope of my collection, these questions come up on a daily basis. For two hundred dollars I coul dcome closer to completing my set or I could purchase a mid-60s Aaron card in PSA 8.

Certainly I am not an expert on increasng the value of my collection. Not two long ago, I was a Michael Jordan completist. Needless to say, that endeavor did not work out dollar-wise for me. Also needless to say, I can never be a Jordan completist. I guess this is another reason why I am cautious in choosing what to collect next.

ydsotter

Man, I never catch a break. I was hoping every 1971 collector already had their psa 8 banks~ and the population doesn't seem that low..... well, we'll see... for what it's worth, I am chasing it only as far as the lower $200.00's... unless ed mcmann pops his head in my door with a publisher's clearinghouse sweepstakes check. I sold a lot of my graded baseball recently~ actually, much of my BGS... ever since BVG came along, my BGS vintage cards have been selling weaker and weaker... and I jumped ship before BGS lost anymore of it's dedicated following. So. I wanted to reinvest it in something really sweet like a psa 8 1971 banks or psa 8 1966 koufax or psa 8 1965 mays...
Does anyone have any nice leads on a high end 60's card of mays, koufax, mantle, rose, banks, clemente or aaron? PSA 8 range?

koby

FB

I have to go along with Zardoz on the "thrill of the hunt" although my affliction (the 72 set) might be serious, its not terminal (like his 71). When I started the set, I was gathering HOF'ers and that provided excitement for 40 - 50 cards. Then, I started looking at the semi- stars and the names I remembered (Ron Santo, Greg Luzinski, Dave Kingman, Jerry Koosman). Pretty soon I moved on to pick up all the cards from favorite team (Mets, Yankees). Then it was onto League Leaders, Award cards, Team cards. Once I reached that point I was at 30 - 35%. What the he__!! I meant heck!!! In for a penny, in for a pound!!!!!

Then 40% becomes a big deal. Hey! if I can get to 43% I'll be #3 on the registry!!!

Its just one long spiral down the forbidden path... Pretty soon, you find yourself staying 6 weeks at the Betty Ford Clinic - Sportscard Division. Be warned.... although you don't believe it - it can happen to you too...

Todd

Has anyone thought about selling their set upon completion? I am now considering finishing my 74 set in 8 only and keeping my nines and starting over. I am trying to get the majority of my 74's graded myself. I should be able to make a few extra bucks if I decide to sell. If I sell I would use the $ to pick up 9's in the 74 set and to complete my 1966 topps.

ngfred

I think I felt a lot of what Koby has brought up, even though I don't agree with some of his reasoning on why it doesnt' make sense to complete a 1979 Topps set. I'll tell you the parts I disagree with and then what I feel the same about:

Disagree -

1) Is this a set that your grandchildren will appreciate? I don't really consider this fact at all. Heck, my wife doesn't even appreciate it right now, but that doesn't stop me from collecting. There will be lots of things my grandchildren will not appreciate, but that cannot stop me from collecting a certain set.

2) Is this a set that your card collecting peers would be impressed with? That's another factor that I don't consider. I think we collect what we feel are "cool", not what the general hobby thinks it's cool. My peers may envy what I have or they may not, but my feelings about the cards will remain long after my peers envy (or lack of) are long gone.

What I do agree with:

The finanacial situation with putting a set together and not grading an entire modern set. It does become very consuming financially when you have to grade every single card. Even if you hope to purchase them slabbed on ebay, the grading fee is already worked into the starting bid. Even though I disagree when Koby says "whether the set will make you money", I feel the cost of putting it together has to be sensible. It just doesn't make sense (as Koby said) to spend $6 to grade a $0.25 card, unless money is not a concern of yours.

I had started to put together a 57 Topps set. Then 2 days ago, I found out my wife is pregnant. My budget for cards was small enough as it is. So now, in accordance with this thread, I decided to do both set collecting and get stars from other sets:

Since I'm more strapped money wise, I am now looking at the 64 Topps Giants (BigKid will appreciate that). And since I like the design and stars from the 57 Topps and 61 Topps, I came up with a list of stars and minor stars, who are not in the 64 Topps Giants set, and collect them in either 57 and 61 Topps. So I scratch the itch of completing a set in 64 Topps Giants, and still have other star cards I want. And a smaller set does fit my personality better, since I am impatient and get frustrated very easily, a complete 57 Topps set might just put me in Betty Ford.

Just my thoughts
Fred

z2345

How many of you collected complete sets prior to the invention of the PSA Set Registry?

I take a more cynical view in that the popularity of set collecting has been driven by PSA, its dealers and its publications. Quarter after quarter, Collectors Universe has been losing money. I suspect PSA is under immense pressure to increase revenues.

Sports Market Report reported in the last five years about how people were making money slabbing new cards. It can no longer fool people as new card collectors are losing their shirts. So what is the solution? Each issue of the Sports Market Report talks about how there has been tremendous increase in sales of graded commons and semistars. Whoever does marketing for PSA should get a raise.

A few years ago, it convinced people that grading newer cards was a great idea, and it received by the boatload worthless Griffey cards, McGwire cards, and Jordan cards. Now, it has convinced people to submit worthless commons from worthless sets.

bosoxphan

Define "worthless sets"

Vargha

How many of you collected complete sets prior to the invention of the PSA Set Registry?

I did. The only thing the Registry did to motivate my behavior was to convince me to upgrade the handful of SGC cards I had to PSA versions.

motocrosser

I also collected sets, started in first grade. I won't tell you the year because I don't want to be
the grandfather of the forum. Actually someone has to be. That was 1953...

The registry has influenced me to crack and crossover about 125 sgc and bgs holders to psa.

I will always be a set collector. Also a cobalt glass, soda bottle, milk bottle, tin box collector.

Soon a social security collector.


John

jml517-ebay

----------------------------------
down to 4 cards for 100% 1961 topps.

bobcat

Worthless commons from worhtless sets????????????? z2345, you had better define what you are talking about! Set collecting has always been and will always be a focal point among collectors. Your comments are way off base!!!!!!!!!!

z2345

Of course everyone collected sets before. I was collecting sets too before the Registry and before PSA was in existence.

What I am talking about is collecting complete sets of sets with 100 percent PSA encapsulation. You can't tell me everyone on this board did this. Certainly, no one was talking about slabbing 1981 commons until recently. I could be wrong.

zardoz51

z2345

You're not wrong.

koby

z2345

There will always be people who collect sets and there will always be people who collect other themes. I do agree that it is ludicrous to spend so much on encapsulation of cards that have less value than the plastic holder.

Koby

z2345

<< <i>Worthless commons from worhtless sets????????????? z2345, you had better define what you are talking about! Set collecting has always been and will always be a focal point among collectors. Your comments are way off base!!!!!!!!!! >>



Bobcat- I did not mean to offend you. Everyone is entitled to do what they choose with their money. If it makes you happy to spend six dollars to slab a 1981-1983 common, who am I to criticize you. My only point is that I do not see the logic in such a practice. No trading card is worthless; all cards have value. Happy? z