It still amazes me that people that know cards and are collectors are taken by these high dollars fakes. The saying goes if its too good to be true it probably is.
Buyer, "Wow, this guy doesn't know what he has!! He's offering me a $10K card for $2K. I better grab it before someone else does!
Later "I can't believe I got ripped off by someone I was trying to get one over on."
Not that it happens this way every time, I'm just saying.
I do feel bad for the people that don't know any better, but before I ever laid out over $200, let alone $30K for a card or anything for that matter, I'd make sure what I was buying and had some kind of solid return policy.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
<< <i>"...Hmmm... I didn't realize that ONLY people that know all the ins and outs of the sportscard field should buy sportscards. Clearly PSA is partly at fault here for not using a slab that can't be tampered with or easily forged. How many of these cards are now in the personal collections of people that aren't "in the know". And you blame them??? What if someone buys one as a gift for their child and puts it away for them. It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product??? They are buying a "PSA slabbed" card! ..."
/////////////////////////////////////
The mfg/vendor - PSA - has no duty to "protect" folks from buying counterfeit/tampered slabs. They also do not have ANY means to attempt to thus protect folks beyond those means already employed.
Just like the mfgs of designer-fashion items are NOT liable when criminals sell counterfeits to the public.
With millions of slabs already in circulation, changing the slabs now would have little/no impact. (Though I support such a change, it would NOT reduce the current "risks." Crooks would just continue to use the old slabs, while they figured out how to defeat the new slabs.)
PSA provides a MASSIVE "library" of info on safe-buying habits, via this forum. Cheating the readers of this forum is VERY hard to do.
Any item can be counterfeited. It's a matter for the LEOs to tackle; if we want to "blame" somebody, we should blame them. >>
I didn't really mean they have a duty and I never said they are liable. It's just common sense and good business practice to protect the people you are selling your "product" to as best as possible. It's common sense to protect their "investment" with your company and it's name. You don't see this garbage happening with BGS/BVG slabs. It's bad business. And comparing it to handbags is ridiculous. You must be pretty naive to think only the "informed" people on these boards matter. To say screw anyone who is uninformed is a VERY weak argument.
"...I never said they have a duty and I never said they are liable. It's just common sense and good business practice to protect the people you are selling your "product" to as best as possible. It's common sense to protect their "investment" with your company and name. You don't see this garbage happening with BGS/BVG slabs. It's bad business. And comparing it to handbags is ridiculous. You must be pretty naive to think only the "informed" people on these boards matter. To say screw anyone who is uninformed is a VERY weak argument. ..."
///////////////////////////////////////
ALL consumers "matter."
They need to do at least as much DD when buying collectibles as they do when buying a cell phone or a toaster.
Folks who REFUSE to inform themselves are acting foolishly. The safety info is widely available; folks need to seek it out BEFORE they spend their money.
..........................
BGS holders are safe, but they are too large for my taste.
I would prefer that PSA's next gen of slabs be much thinner and designed to shatter TOTALLY when tampered. Such a change would NOT impact the current "problems."
If there are 10-million "old" slabs out there, changing the slab now will do nothing to eliminate fraud.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>"...I never said they have a duty and I never said they are liable. It's just common sense and good business practice to protect the people you are selling your "product" to as best as possible. It's common sense to protect their "investment" with your company and name. You don't see this garbage happening with BGS/BVG slabs. It's bad business. And comparing it to handbags is ridiculous. You must be pretty naive to think only the "informed" people on these boards matter. To say screw anyone who is uninformed is a VERY weak argument. ..."
///////////////////////////////////////
ALL consumers "matter."
They need to do at least as much DD when buying collectibles as they do when buying a cell phone or a toaster.
Folks who REFUSE to inform themselves are acting foolishly. The safety info is widely available; folks need to seek it out BEFORE they spend their money.
..........................
BGS holders are safe, but they are too large for my taste.
I would prefer that PSA's next gen of slabs be much thinner and designed to shatter TOTALLY when tampered. Such a change would NOT impact the current "problems."
If there are 10-million "old" slabs out there, changing the slab now will do nothing to eliminate fraud. >>
I see you failed to respond to any of my other points. Clearly people should do their best to inform themselves. I never argued that.
Anything can be counterfeited. Slabs are plastic. They're easier to counterfeit IMO than handbags.
As far as tampering with the slabs, the Craigslist fake slabs usually look really bad in person. The flips look bad even in a scan.
BTW, we don't know that BGS/BVG slabs haven't been counterfeited. What we know is that if they have been counterfeited, it was good enough that the counterfeiters haven't been caught.
<< <i>Anything can be counterfeited. Slabs are plastic. They're easier to counterfeit IMO than handbags.
As far as tampering with the slabs, the Craigslist fake slabs usually look really bad in person. The flips look bad even in a scan.
BTW, we don't know that BGS/BVG slabs haven't been counterfeited. What we know is that if they have been counterfeited, it was good enough that the counterfeiters haven't been caught.
Nick >>
I think it's almost impossible to mess with a BGS slab and I have never once heard of a complete forgery. They do it right with the slabs, PSA does it wrong.
<< <i><<<<<<<<I MEANT it is something they SHOULD care about.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Do you have some inside info? How do you know that they don't care about this situation?
On the contrary friend we have been told that they are aware of this situation and that they do care. Do you think that
this is the first thread about this? This is probably the 10th if not more. The bottom line is PSA uses a tamper evident slab.
If someone wants to create a fake cert that matches a real card nothing PSA does or does not do will stop them.
What will stop them is people not buying from any Tom, Dick or Harry that claims to have all these thousand dollar cards and is willing to
sell them on the cheap.
Could they have used a slab akin to fort knox? Sure they chose not too, I'm not privy to why they chose this specific holder.
Steve >>
Are you like a PSA homer or something? Do you think them infallible? Clearly this is a huge problem when you are talking thousands upon thousands of dollars. But you are right, they should just sit on their hands.
<< <i>"...But you are right, they should just sit on their hands. ..."
////////////////////////////
What EXACTLY is your solution? >>
New slabs with free or very cheap re-slabbing. Or there are probably other things you can do, but I don't run the business, so it's not my job to come up with them.
""""" It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product???""""
Isn't that your quote?
Steve >>
>>
Hilarious stuff. I guess actually adding to the discussion at hand isn't your specialty. >>
Your right the discussion at hand is not my specialty, if you want to talk Vintage Football then that is a different story. However I do find it funny that your editting your posts and when you contradicted yourself Steve called you on it and made you look like a fool.
As far as adding to the discussion I will say I disagree with you
<< <i>Maybe that was your intention, however the fact remains you quoted me.
We will just chalk it up to ignorance on your part, when someone quotes someone, that person generally
will think that the person is speaking to them, not someone else who happened to 'pop' in.
Next time so there is no confusion address the person by name, that would help.
Steve >>
I clearly quoted the guy who quoted you. Go look again. You are the one with almost 25,000 posts, so you should know how to use the site more than me with 80 something posts. You are simply dead wrong.
""""" It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product???""""
Isn't that your quote?
Steve >>
>>
Hilarious stuff. I guess actually adding to the discussion at hand isn't your specialty. >>
Your right the discussion at hand is not my specialty, if you want to talk Vintage Football then that is a different story. However I do find it funny that your editting your posts and when you contradicted yourself Steve called you on it and made you look like a fool.
As far as adding to the discussion I will say I disagree with you >>
Hey look, winpicher, he's responding to me after I quoted HIM. This guy is really funny. You guys tell me to "edit" if I misspoke, and I did. Now you are giving me flack for editing. You are great. lol Anyway, back to the topic at hand and enough with the attacks. It's simply childish.
You must be easily amused, because I don't see any humor in you attacking someone for responding to you when they in fact responded to someone else. FUNNY LAUGH HAHA.
<< <i>Actually a troll is someone that shows up all of a sudden and creates controversy.
Geez that sounds more like you then it does me.
So, Mr. I just got here in Sept and have all of 93 posts who the hell are you, how many other boards do you frequent
and if you add up all the posts in all those other boards how many posts do you have? Or are you 15 and this is your first forum?
Steve >>
I am active on FCB and Net54. Insults don't bother me in the least, but I do use them as an opportunity to insult back. I certainly don't like wasting my time insulting people who feel the need to attack me.
Comments
Buyer, "Wow, this guy doesn't know what he has!! He's offering me a $10K card for $2K. I better grab it before someone else does!
Later "I can't believe I got ripped off by someone I was trying to get one over on."
Not that it happens this way every time, I'm just saying.
I do feel bad for the people that don't know any better, but before I ever laid out over $200, let alone $30K for a card or anything for that matter, I'd make sure what I was buying and had some kind of solid return policy.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
<< <i>"...Hmmm... I didn't realize that ONLY people that know all the ins and outs of the sportscard field should buy sportscards. Clearly PSA is partly at fault here for not using a slab that can't be tampered with or easily forged. How many of these cards are now in the personal collections of people that aren't "in the know". And you blame them??? What if someone buys one as a gift for their child and puts it away for them. It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product??? They are buying a "PSA slabbed" card! ..."
/////////////////////////////////////
The mfg/vendor - PSA - has no duty to "protect" folks from
buying counterfeit/tampered slabs. They also do not have ANY means
to attempt to thus protect folks beyond those means already employed.
Just like the mfgs of designer-fashion items are NOT liable
when criminals sell counterfeits to the public.
With millions of slabs already in circulation, changing the slabs
now would have little/no impact. (Though I support such a change,
it would NOT reduce the current "risks." Crooks would just continue
to use the old slabs, while they figured out how to defeat the new slabs.)
PSA provides a MASSIVE "library" of info on safe-buying
habits, via this forum. Cheating the readers of this forum
is VERY hard to do.
Any item can be counterfeited. It's a matter for the LEOs
to tackle; if we want to "blame" somebody, we should
blame them. >>
I didn't really mean they have a duty and I never said they are liable. It's just common sense and good business practice to protect the people you are selling your "product" to as best as possible. It's common sense to protect their "investment" with your company and it's name. You don't see this garbage happening with BGS/BVG slabs. It's bad business. And comparing it to handbags is ridiculous. You must be pretty naive to think only the "informed" people on these boards matter. To say screw anyone who is uninformed is a VERY weak argument.
""""" It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product???""""
Isn't that your quote?
Steve
<< <i>You never said they had a duty??
""""" It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product???""""
Isn't that your quote?
Steve >>
<< <i>You never said they had a duty??
""""" It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product???""""
Isn't that your quote?
Steve >>
I simply misspoke. That's really not the point anyway.
///////////////////////////////////////
ALL consumers "matter."
They need to do at least as much DD when buying collectibles
as they do when buying a cell phone or a toaster.
Folks who REFUSE to inform themselves are acting foolishly.
The safety info is widely available; folks need to seek it out
BEFORE they spend their money.
..........................
BGS holders are safe, but they are too large for my taste.
I would prefer that PSA's next gen of slabs be much thinner
and designed to shatter TOTALLY when tampered. Such a
change would NOT impact the current "problems."
If there are 10-million "old" slabs out there, changing the
slab now will do nothing to eliminate fraud.
<< <i>I simply misspoke. That's really not the point anyway. >>
Misspoke? You are typing and have an edit tab.
<< <i>
<< <i>You never said they had a duty??
""""" It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product???""""
Isn't that your quote?
Steve >>
Hilarious stuff. I guess actually adding to the discussion at hand isn't your specialty.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>I simply misspoke. That's really not the point anyway. >>
Misspoke? You are typing and have an edit tab. >>
Again, I misspoke. Is that really the point, friend? I think not. I MEANT it is something they SHOULD care about. Get over it.
<< <i>"...I never said they have a duty and I never said they are liable. It's just common sense and good business practice to protect the people you are selling your "product" to as best as possible. It's common sense to protect their "investment" with your company and name. You don't see this garbage happening with BGS/BVG slabs. It's bad business. And comparing it to handbags is ridiculous. You must be pretty naive to think only the "informed" people on these boards matter. To say screw anyone who is uninformed is a VERY weak argument. ..."
///////////////////////////////////////
ALL consumers "matter."
They need to do at least as much DD when buying collectibles
as they do when buying a cell phone or a toaster.
Folks who REFUSE to inform themselves are acting foolishly.
The safety info is widely available; folks need to seek it out
BEFORE they spend their money.
..........................
BGS holders are safe, but they are too large for my taste.
I would prefer that PSA's next gen of slabs be much thinner
and designed to shatter TOTALLY when tampered. Such a
change would NOT impact the current "problems."
If there are 10-million "old" slabs out there, changing the
slab now will do nothing to eliminate fraud. >>
I see you failed to respond to any of my other points. Clearly people should do their best to inform themselves. I never argued that.
Really? I suggest you go back and re read this thread, until you put your foot in your mouth I was
adding to the discussion and some would say showing that you did in fact say what you later claimed you didn't was also adding to it.
Steve
<< <i>. I guess actually adding to the discussion at hand isn't your specialty.
Really? I suggest you go back and re read this thread, until you put your foot in your mouth I was
adding to the discussion and some would say showing that you did in fact say what you later claimed you didn't was also adding to it.
Steve >>
Oh, did I say that to YOU. Maybe YOU should go back and re-read my post.
As far as tampering with the slabs, the Craigslist fake slabs usually look really bad in person. The flips look bad even in a scan.
BTW, we don't know that BGS/BVG slabs haven't been counterfeited. What we know is that if they have been counterfeited, it was good enough that the counterfeiters haven't been caught.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>Anything can be counterfeited. Slabs are plastic. They're easier to counterfeit IMO than handbags.
As far as tampering with the slabs, the Craigslist fake slabs usually look really bad in person. The flips look bad even in a scan.
BTW, we don't know that BGS/BVG slabs haven't been counterfeited. What we know is that if they have been counterfeited, it was good enough that the counterfeiters haven't been caught.
Nick >>
I think it's almost impossible to mess with a BGS slab and I have never once heard of a complete forgery. They do it right with the slabs, PSA does it wrong.
Do you have some inside info? How do you know that they don't care about this situation?
On the contrary friend we have been told that they are aware of this situation and that they do care. Do you think that
this is the first thread about this? This is probably the 10th if not more. The bottom line is PSA uses a tamper evident slab.
If someone wants to create a fake cert that matches a real card nothing PSA does or does not do will stop them.
What will stop them is people not buying from any Tom, Dick or Harry that claims to have all these thousand dollar cards and is willing to
sell them on the cheap.
Could they have used a slab akin to fort knox? Sure they chose not too, I'm not privy to why they chose this specific holder.
Steve
<< <i>Get over it. >>
You're not the boss of me.
<< <i><<<<<<<<I MEANT it is something they SHOULD care about.>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Do you have some inside info? How do you know that they don't care about this situation?
On the contrary friend we have been told that they are aware of this situation and that they do care. Do you think that
this is the first thread about this? This is probably the 10th if not more. The bottom line is PSA uses a tamper evident slab.
If someone wants to create a fake cert that matches a real card nothing PSA does or does not do will stop them.
What will stop them is people not buying from any Tom, Dick or Harry that claims to have all these thousand dollar cards and is willing to
sell them on the cheap.
Could they have used a slab akin to fort knox? Sure they chose not too, I'm not privy to why they chose this specific holder.
Steve >>
Are you like a PSA homer or something? Do you think them infallible? Clearly this is a huge problem when you are talking thousands upon thousands of dollars. But you are right, they should just sit on their hands.
<< You never said they had a duty??
""""" It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product???""""
Isn't that your quote?
Steve >>
>>
Hilarious stuff. I guess actually adding to the discussion at hand isn't your specialty
===============================================================================================================
Ok so since you quoted me and then said that who were you talking to? If not me?
Or did you simply mis speak again?
Steve
<< <i>LOL yeah you said it to me why else would you have quoted me?
<< You never said they had a duty??
""""" It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product???""""
Isn't that your quote?
Steve >>
>>
Hilarious stuff. I guess actually adding to the discussion at hand isn't your specialty
===============================================================================================================
Ok so since you quoted me and then said that who were you talking to? If not me?
Or did you simply mis speak again?
Steve >>
I quoted the dude who popped his head in to laugh, as though there was some huge comedic revelation. Still funny to you?
////////////////////////////
What EXACTLY is your solution?
<< <i>"...But you are right, they should just sit on their hands. ..."
////////////////////////////
What EXACTLY is your solution? >>
New slabs with free or very cheap re-slabbing. Or there are probably other things you can do, but I don't run the business, so it's not my job to come up with them.
We will just chalk it up to ignorance on your part, when someone quotes someone, that person generally
will think that the person is speaking to them, not someone else who happened to 'pop' in.
Next time so there is no confusion address the person by name, that would help.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You never said they had a duty??
""""" It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product???""""
Isn't that your quote?
Steve >>
Hilarious stuff. I guess actually adding to the discussion at hand isn't your specialty. >>
Your right the discussion at hand is not my specialty, if you want to talk Vintage Football then that is a different story. However I do find it funny that your editting your posts and when you contradicted yourself Steve called you on it and made you look like a fool.
As far as adding to the discussion I will say I disagree with you
<< <i>Maybe that was your intention, however the fact remains you quoted me.
We will just chalk it up to ignorance on your part, when someone quotes someone, that person generally
will think that the person is speaking to them, not someone else who happened to 'pop' in.
Next time so there is no confusion address the person by name, that would help.
Steve >>
I clearly quoted the guy who quoted you. Go look again. You are the one with almost 25,000 posts, so you should know how to use the site more than me with 80 something posts. You are simply dead wrong.
But it is your job to be critical of them?
Lets talk about the Beckett scam where some guys kept sending in cards for bumps.
A 9 wound up as a 10 IIRC. Then we have the football cards that were numbered and those same guys
got them into 9.5 holders. SGC has had it's share of problems too. GAI? I only speak of them on a Monday.
Problems are not strictly a PSA matter.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You never said they had a duty??
""""" It's not PSA's duty to protect people that are buying THEIR product???""""
Isn't that your quote?
Steve >>
Hilarious stuff. I guess actually adding to the discussion at hand isn't your specialty. >>
Your right the discussion at hand is not my specialty, if you want to talk Vintage Football then that is a different story. However I do find it funny that your editting your posts and when you contradicted yourself Steve called you on it and made you look like a fool.
As far as adding to the discussion I will say I disagree with you >>
Hey look, winpicher, he's responding to me after I quoted HIM. This guy is really funny. You guys tell me to "edit" if I misspoke, and I did. Now you are giving me flack for editing. You are great. lol Anyway, back to the topic at hand and enough with the attacks. It's simply childish.
<< <i><<<<<<<<<<so it's not my job to come up with them.>>>>>>>>>>>
But it is your job to be critical of them?
Lets talk about the Beckett scam where some guys kept sending in cards for bumps.
A 9 wound up as a 10 IIRC. Then we have the football cards that were numbered and those same guys
got them into 9.5 holders. SGC has had it's share of problems too. GAI? I only speak of them on a Monday.
Problems are not strictly a PSA matter.
Steve >>
Did I ever say they were??? I thought we were discussing this matter AT HAND. What is with you people?
I clearly quoted the guy who quoted you.
Steve
<< <i>I clearly quoted the guy who quoted you.
Steve >>
You must be easily amused, because I don't see any humor in you attacking someone for responding to you when they in fact responded to someone else. FUNNY LAUGH HAHA.
Did I ever say they were???
Did I say you did?
Steve
<< <i>Did I ever say they were???
Did I say you did?
Steve >>
I can see now you are just troll. It explains the 25,000 posts.
Really? are we going to start with name calling now?
You asked a question and I replied.
You said "Did I ever say they were???
And I said:
Did I say you did?
So did I or didn't I and fwiw I have 25k posts because I wind up arguing with dirt bags like you.
Steve
<< <i>I can see now you are just troll. It explains the 25,000 posts.
Really? are we going to start with name calling now?
You asked a question and I replied.
You said "Did I ever say they were???
And I said:
Did I say you did?
So did I or didn't I and fwiw I have 25k posts because I wind up arguing with dirt bags like you.
Steve >>
I'm a dirt-bag because I have to defend myself from you because you took offense to me saying something to you that I didn't say. YOU WIN. lol
How someone looks while their typing what they are saying.
I bet a few people are pissed off and I would love to see the look on their faces.
And some are comical, and yet I would still love to see the look on the face.
Sorry....just had to throw out what I'm thinking while drinkin
Carry on gents
<< <i>You know what I like to think about sometimes when I'm drinking and surfing the boards? >>
Please see my last 4 responses.
Geez that sounds more like you then it does me.
So, Mr. I just got here in Sept and have all of 93 posts who the hell are you, how many other boards do you frequent
and if you add up all the posts in all those other boards how many posts do you have? Or are you 15 and this is your first forum?
Steve
<< <i>This one time, at band camp..... >>
I hope for your sake it didn't included a flute Bill
Steve
<< <i>Actually a troll is someone that shows up all of a sudden and creates controversy.
Geez that sounds more like you then it does me.
So, Mr. I just got here in Sept and have all of 93 posts who the hell are you, how many other boards do you frequent
and if you add up all the posts in all those other boards how many posts do you have? Or are you 15 and this is your first forum?
Steve >>
I am active on FCB and Net54. Insults don't bother me in the least, but I do use them as an opportunity to insult back. I certainly don't like wasting my time insulting people who feel the need to attack me.
<< <i>Tampa I'm usually laughing when I get into these flames.
Steve >>
It is good entertainment for me
On a serious note, I did somehow manage to cut my whole pinky toenail off and it is still bleeding
But its ok..... were all having a good time