Stupid question regarding pops of graded coins for NGC and PCGS.

ormandh

I am culling my entire collection to focus on my aluminum, notgeld, and various other obscure collections and was coming across many slabable(sp?) coins. My question is, How do I find out what the populations are for certain issues to determine if slabbing them would be beneficial as opposed to selling them raw. I realize that the market will determine if I will make a profit, but I would like to maximize my profits for time is not an issue. I have never personally had a coin slabbed. I would also consider paying someone to have them slabbed for me, if it were worth the trouble and expense. Thanks in advance. -Dan

FilthyBroke

<< <i>My question is, How do I find out what the populations are for certain issues to determine if slabbing them would be beneficial as opposed to selling them raw. >>




I could be wrong on this but I think pop reports are available to club members only. I tried to find some a while back, but had to get a paid member to look them up for me.

ormandh

It seems to me that if PCGS wanted people to spend their money with them then they would allow their pop reports to be available to the public! But, who am I to tell them how to run a business! I am just saying. -Dan

WWW

Try this LINK for PCGS world coins.

FilthyBroke

Thanks for the info, WWW. So it's just U.S. coins that are available to subscribers only? I have to wonder why it's set up like this though.

ormandh

Not a whole lot of info there. Is there a reason for that?

7Jaguars

Not to derail your enquiry but I do not know if I would use pop reports to determine the worthiness of slabbing (at least for world coins) as these are notoriously UNRELIABLE for detrmining rarity. Many times there is overrepresentation (both at PC and NG) for scarcer to rarer bits and others more common have not been slabbed. Also, some with higher pops may be artefactual for a variety of other reasons.

I almost laugh when somebody says that they have a "pop top" world coin at either NG or PC, as this can be almost meaningless. It is ego gratifying to see that there have been few or none others graded but def. not representational of worth or even scarcity. This is IMO but almost certain that others on these boards when asked will venture similar opinions.

JCMhouston

I'm with 7Jaguars on the populations, there are some rare coins with relatively large pops, and some common coins with very small pops. However, if it's a $50 coin or more I think it is worthwhile to have them graded. In todays market even fairly common coins seem to make good money when graded, particularly the 65's and above. Foe example coins you would consider common in UK 20th C. copper will make multiples of the book price in a 65 holder.

I've got quite a few top pop coins in my collections, a few of them are actually scarce to rare, many are common as dirt and the pop means nothing, except when you go to sell them.

Rickc300

Also as a side note: If a collector is partial to PCGS, NGC or whatever TPGS they prefer, that collector may purchase a coin locked in plastic from another and crack it out and submit it to their fav grading service. This may lead to having many more coins graded than is actually available in a graded state. I have seen one coin that I owned at one time in 2 different PCGS and 2 NGCC holders in a period of under two years. This is kind of scary if you think about it. I guess others like me thought it might go one tick higher on the scale if submitted raw to a different TPGS.
Just my 2 cents worth...
Rick

ASUtodd

You know, I have never thought about that.... guess that really makes Pop reports useless....

RobP

As several posts have mentioned, the population reports are not the most reliable. Of the 80-90 coins in my collection that were formerly in TPG slabs, I had issues with nearly a quarter of them based on either attribution or grading (where there was a discrepancy of a full grade IMHO). Leaving aside the grading which is after all only another person's opinion of its condition and always going to be subjective, it still leaves over a dozen that were clearly not what they claimed to be to the trained eye. Most had an incorrect variety, denomination or date on the label and so clearly have an important bearing on rarity and top pops.

For example, a few of the most glaring errors were NGC's 1673 1/2d in MS65 which was actually 1675 over 3 over 2; a P1051 (ex Cheshire Collection) which was a P1054 - no curls under the bust, so a different design; a P1983 decimal pattern halfpenny which was actually a Freeman 689 - the reverse wreath goes in the opposite direction and is a unique coin; a Weyl 1860 uniface penny listed as a 1/2p(sic) and also unique; plus a couple of unrecorded, but obvious overdates - an 1839/41 bronzed proof halfpenny and a 1732/1 halfpenny (these two were very obvious overdates even to the casual observer). This list is not exhaustive, and that from just my own collection.

Thanks to the use of computers, the population cause is not helped by inconsistent labelling such as 1p & 1 P or 1797 SOHO & 1797SOHO. Any variation in the use of spaces on the label shows up as a different population in the census reports. All TPGs are guilty to varying degrees of transgressions regarding incorrect records.

If I personally have removed close to 100 coins from their slabs, the total number of coins across the collecting universe which could potentially no longer be slabbed is immense and any could be added to the census for a second (or third, or fourth etc.) time. This doesn't take into consideration those collectors who resubmit in order to achieve a higher grade. Most of these coins will inevitably have low population figures because only the top grades or rare varieties tend to be submitted. There is a lot of food for thought.

SYRACUSIAN

Although I don't disagree on the lack of reliability of the pop reports, I would suggest that you slab any coins that you wish to sell and that are above MS63 and worth more than $20 in unc. It's not only that some very common coins bring multiples of their cat value in MS65+, but mostly a question of visibility if you intend to sell them on ebay. There's only so much that most collectors have the time to see, and slabbed examples is usually the most common selection criterion for the casual buyers.

Evidently, I'm referring to inexpensive common or even slightly scarce coins, and not esoteric and even unique issues like the ones that RobP mentioned.

That said, imaging and seller's rep are equally important. If you think that you don't have enough experience on these fields, there are a few members here who would gladly handle the submissions, images and sale of your coins for a small fee on top of the submission,ebay and paypal fees. Finally keep in mind that when all is said and done, what matters is the total profit (if any) on your coins, and not one or two particularly succesfull or disappointing results, and therefore it is IMHO to your advantage to go through this procedure with all of the coins that you want to sell, as opposed to small groups to test the waters.

7Jaguars

Rob was pointing out that egregious errors are and have been committed by the TPGs. This is quite true although the general gist of attribution it fairly close with more mundane issues as you point out. The OP was essentially whether pop reports were reliable indicators of rarity. In fact, as has been pointed out, the correlation is rather poor.

Whether a coin brings more on ebay slabbed vs. not slabbed is a different point. I am not sure of the price break at which coins should be slabbed as with only a few coins submitted at one time, cost of encapsulation are prohibitive. But this also was NOT the original point albeit possibly one worth discussing on another post.

ormandh

To make things clear from my initial post... I never said that I was going to submit a low quantity of coinage, because I have plenty of coins to submit. I was merely trying to figure out how to maximize my profits. You see, I really have not completely bought into the whole slabbed coin phase, but I realize that it is a necessity to sell MY coins for a premium. If you have followed any of the auctions which I have casually put up on ebay, you will notice that most have not sold for a premium, I feel anyway. I have sold lots of coins for a profit, but not all. I have been collecting foreign coins(my passion for the past four years) and really want to cull my collection so I can focus on the area I feel I will enjoy the most, which is aluminum coinage. I have outgrown the nonchalant collecting of various groups or countries and want to focus on an area I feel is not paid attention to, aluminum coinage.