Question.. how would you feel?

dizzle · November 28, 2009 6:09AM

Wondering how most of the board members here would feel if this happened?

Say a board member makes a thread asking for cards to use for the purpose of IP/TTM autos and states for whom contributes they'll pay back the generousity by sending some autos back to you if they get doubles..

So you make a nice stack of the players asked for send them on your dollar and never hear back but months later see them selling these cards on the B/S/T boards (of course with autos now) would you be ticked?

Just wondering?

Ironmanfan · November 28, 2009 6:12AM

would p*ss me off (out the guy!)

vladguerrero · November 28, 2009 6:13AM

wow, douche move, i'd be upset.

fattymacs · November 28, 2009 6:13AM

Looks like I know what thread I'll be watching tonight.

storm888 · November 28, 2009 6:16AM

"...they'll pay back the generousity by sending some autos back to you if they get doubles...."

/////////////////////////////////////

Since the promise was contingent on "getting doubles," I would
only be "ticked" if I was sure that doubles were obtained.

Elemenopeo · November 28, 2009 6:17AM

<< Looks like I know what thread I'll be watching tonight. >>

HAH!

vladguerrero · November 28, 2009 6:19AM

<< "...they'll pay back the generousity by sending some autos back to you if they get doubles...."

/////////////////////////////////////

Since the promise was contingent on "getting doubles," I would
only be "ticked" if I was sure that doubles were obtained. >>

still, someone asks for cards for TTM auto's, get's given some, then sells them for profit???

WalterSobchak · November 28, 2009 6:19AM

Yes, that would irritate me. But since I was willing to give the cards away to the person for free in the first place, chances are they weren't worth a whole lot- so big deal. I would make a mental note about that person for future dealings, and let it go after that.

When I give something away, it is now the recipient's property. They have the right to do with it whatever they like.

lawnmowerman · November 28, 2009 6:20AM

Yeah that sucks Dustin.

fur72 · November 28, 2009 6:30AM

I think selling TTM's is a terrible idea to begin with.

RipublicaninMass · November 28, 2009 6:35AM

<< "...they'll pay back the generousity by sending some autos back to you if they get doubles...."

/////////////////////////////////////

Since the promise was contingent on "getting doubles," I would
only be "ticked" if I was sure that doubles were obtained. >>

More so if they ended up on Ebay

royalbrett · November 28, 2009 7:03AM

I would not be a big fan of it myself.

ripkenintheminors · November 28, 2009 7:09AM

yikes.

yankeeno7 · November 28, 2009 7:11AM

Isnt that what they call a 50/50? You send twice the items (cards, balls, photos, whatever) and the person gets both items signed and returning one to you? Yeah, thats not cool. Im a TTM guy (for the record, Ive never had a deal with dizzle LOL) and would think this is a crappy move fueled by greed. Unfortunately, I think I can guess who the person is.

For the record, there is nothing wrong with selling on card, TTM autos.

Ironmanfan · November 28, 2009 7:14AM

I think I now know who it is too

yankeeno7 · November 28, 2009 7:15AM

I just wanted to post "For the record" one more time

ripkenintheminors · November 28, 2009 7:24AM

I am not sure I am a fan of getting something signed then turning around and selling it. If you pay a fee I guess that is one thing but selling free sigs gets in the way of genuine fans corresponding with athletes.

KatsCards · November 28, 2009 7:35AM

This thread is worthless....without the link

storm888 · November 28, 2009 7:40AM

<< I am not sure I am a fan of getting something signed then turning around and selling it. If you pay a fee I guess that is one thing but selling free sigs gets in the way of genuine fans corresponding with athletes. >>

///////////////////////

At first blush, that notion will always seem to have merit.

BUT....

The TTM guys who resell their stuff are simply serving
as a legitimate conduit of the items.

Genuine fans - who do not want to correspond with the
athletes - are given a chance to own the items without
doing the extra work of TTM.

yankeeno7 · November 28, 2009 7:42AM

I get what you are saying Ripkenintheminors but there are many who want signed cards who do not want to be bothered with TTM. They all end up in a good home where they are appreciated, just as any other memorabilia. It is tacky to try to overcharge. Players know this kind of thing happens. Some choose not to sign because of it and they have that right. But they also know there are a lot of genuine collectors such as myself looking to have it for their collection. Do I ever sell any of what I have? sure...only to be put back in for more TTMs I want for my own collection or to help out other collectors who may be working on a specific set or player. It's like anything else, its all how you go about it.

divecchia · November 28, 2009 7:43AM

I would be a bit annoyed, but not pissed off unless we made a deal saying that some cards were to come back to me after they were signed.

Donato

lawnmowerman · November 28, 2009 7:56AM

<< I think I now know who it is too >>

I know who it is and will be dispatching a turd in a box, addressed to him, at my earliest convenience.

That's my version of a TTM.

jimrad · November 28, 2009 7:57AM

<< 

<< I think I now know who it is too >>

I know who it is and will be dispatching a turd in box, addressed to him, at my earliest convenience.

That's my version of a TTM.

>>

fattymacs · November 28, 2009 8:02AM

Someone PM me, I'm clueless when it comes to this sleuth bidness.

ripkenintheminors · November 28, 2009 8:11AM

I understand the logic about being a conduit to getting items available. I just would not personally pick a guy and write a letter in hopes of getting a sig just to turn around and sell it. This is just my personal preference and nothing more.

vladguerrero · November 28, 2009 8:18AM

<< I understand the logic about being a conduit to getting items available. I just would not personally pick a guy and write a letter in hopes of getting a sig just to turn around and sell it. This is just my personal preference and nothing more. >>

Maybe some people are up front about it... "Dear X, I am a really big fan of money and I was wondering if you could sign some cards for me so I can sell them and get some money. Thank you for your time."

dizzle · November 28, 2009 8:30AM

Well... here's the deal, This actually all started a year ago.. (long time ago right?) and to be honest I completely forgot about it till recently.. while reading everyones cool TTM threads it just popped in my head.

Anyhow the dude goes by metrotheme

He told me..
Any help you could provide with those NBA commons would be appreciated. Like I said, if any of the players are willing to sign more than one card, I'd be willing to send some autographs your way for the help.

and

Thanks alot for the help! If I can acquire any extra autographs, I will send them your way.

and

Got em today. Thanks alot man. Of course as luck would have it, the day I got them, the Suns traded away two of their players! I'll keep you updated on the autos.

And that was it... never heard from him again...

Anyways, I thought hmm.. The guy must of quite posting here or never got them signed or something and decided to do a search..

Well I found a thread from a couple months ago where he is/was selling some of the cards that were included in the batch I sent..
LINK 2

Now, Were these high dollar items?? NO.. But I would had loved to have some of them for my collection Like one of the rookies of Shaq, marburry, tim thomas,penny hardaway,tyrone hill, and a few others...

Am I wrong for posting this?? I don't no?

I just think it's wrong and Hopefully people won't send this guy free cards thinking they are helping somebody build there collection when he's just doing it for profit...

I figured it was a win-win situation... I help somebody out and in return I get to add a couple cool cards to my collection if all goes well..

I sent him a PM asking why he never wrote back or anything and why he was selling them? He didn't respond back.. But I did see him post today asking if anyone had a certain 1952 topps common..

Sorry for the crappy write up.. but I got my 4 year old boy jumping on my back thinking he's the Ultimate warrior

edit for typo..

ripkenintheminors · November 28, 2009 8:40AM

Did you give them away or sell them?

MULLINS5 · November 28, 2009 8:50AM

<< some of the cards that were included in the batch I sold..
>>

is this a typo or my misunderstanding... did you sell rather than give him the cards?

guy seems like a leech coming here and asking for free cards...there have been some members who have sent me free cards in the past as pure generosity, i've asked some members too if they would be willing to sell some cards they've recently pulled, but to go out and blatantly ask for free things, like some people do, just bewilders me.

sorry this happened to you and thanks for posting this. it is information this board should know.

btw - on the idea of selling TTM's ... i see nothing wrong with this. when i actively participated in TTM's was before the internet really took over. it seemed like a lot of athletes participated too, but maybe because they see their TTM's on eBay for sale gives them a sour feeling? think about it dizzle, it would sort of be like the feeling you got when you saw your gifts for sale here. sucks.

sometimes athletes personalize the item they auto, this keeps it more personal and harder to sell if someone was only wanting the signature to turn over.

dizzle · November 28, 2009 8:59AM

Sorry for the typo guys... NO did not sell them.. I sent them free in hopes of getting some back as was promised he's also made other threads asking of the same help before and alot of sell threads which are always ttm/ip stuff..

Like I mentioned I have a 4 year old jumping on me while I'm typing lol.. I'll edit that so people are not confused..

vladguerrero · November 28, 2009 9:08AM

Sorry for the crappy write up.. but I got my 4 year old boy jumping on my back thinking he's the Ultimate warrior

man, when you told me before your son liked make-up and tights I thought maybe he was a ballerina, the Ultimate Warrior was the best!

I would like to hear from Metro but asking for cards, then selling them isn't right in my books... did he also ask for the stamps and envelopes?

grote15 · November 28, 2009 9:22AM

I'd agree that it is in very poor taste..

MULLINS5 · November 28, 2009 9:27AM

metrotheme says ALL of his cards are signed in person, i highly doubt this and see it as misleading..after looking at some of the cards i question whether they are signed by the athlete.

he should come and respond...

WinPitcher · November 28, 2009 9:31AM

What Mullins said.

Steve

vladguerrero · November 28, 2009 9:36AM

Dizzle, did a lot of the cards you sent him show up signed? ie. did he magically have a near 100% success rate ...I noticed the Shaq is gone/sold.

dizzle · November 28, 2009 9:37AM

<< I would like to hear from Metro but asking for cards, then selling them isn't right in my books... did he also ask for the stamps and envelopes? >>

He's free to sell, That part doesn't bother me...

It's crappy being led to believe if you send (doubles,triples, and quadruples) of cards on his list, He will get some autos back to you and then you never hear from the guy but see him selling cards he got from you..

If you search his posts.. This is his routine... It seems the threads he starts are asking for free cards for his ttm/ip projects (with promising to return the favor) or selling ttm/ip autos in the b/s/t

Granted he has a couple good threads mixed in here and there it doesn't make up for the scheme he has going..

I've went out of my way on these boards in the past and got peoples addresses behind their back, to send them cards (without even knowing the person or even speaking to them through pm ect..) just cause they seemed like a decent person and I thought the cards would be a nice suprise for someone who truly wants to add them to their collection... that feels great when they pm you excited about some stuff you really didn't care too much about....

But this guy kinda PI55ED me off and made me feel like I had been hustled rather than helping out another collector...

dizzle · November 28, 2009 9:43AM

<< Dizzle, did a lot of the cards you sent him show up signed? ie. did he magically have a near 100% success rate ...I noticed the Shaq is gone/sold. >>

You know... I have no idea... But it sure looks like he got most signed to me.

I also remember going out of my way to pick out cards that would look great signed and provided rookies on every player I could from his list doubles, triples, etc...

fur72 · November 28, 2009 10:28AM

<< I understand the logic about being a conduit to getting items available. I just would not personally pick a guy and write a letter in hopes of getting a sig just to turn around and sell it. This is just my personal preference and nothing more. >>

I couldnt agree more. Sometimes I think when players see stuff go on sale like this it might piss them off and be relucant to sign for free.

As for Dizzle looks like someone owes you an explnation.

Dboneesq · November 28, 2009 11:22AM

Dizzle ... THAT SUCKS!!!! I enjoy TTMs and send out quite a few. I have another collector friend who asked me if I would send out some of his cards when I did my TTMs ... we made a deal ... he would send me 2 copies of cards from his '65 set and I would try to get them signed. If I was successful I kept one and gave one to him. Could not imagine keeping one and selling the other ... that would be a real low life move!!!

metrotheme · November 30, 2009 1:01PM

<< Dizzle, did a lot of the cards you sent him show up signed? ie. did he magically have a near 100% success rate ...I noticed the Shaq is gone/sold. >>

I never got Shaq to sign anything. I am in the process of working this out privately with Dizzle. I got his PM just BEFORE I read all of this.

I had no intentions of swindling anyone. It was a year ago, and I admittedly went out to lunch on this one. I didn't purposely omit Dizzle, nor do I check my PM's often because I don't usually login to the board, I just login to post, which are two different things. If you login just on a post, it will not keep you logged in to see your messages. I lurk much more than I post. I apologize and I will make it up to him. I'm sorry that is how it went down. It's not how I operate and there have been other members that I have traded with successfully here on the boards. I'm glad this was brought to my attention.

About my selling IP autographs, I've come to this realization. Most I keep for myself. A few I sell. It pays for my train fare and the hours I spend waiting around for the autos. My time is valuable and if I can recoup some of it, I'm ok with it. I'd rather put autographs out there that I saw signed in front of my eyes, than fake ones. I would hope that people who purchase them would want real IP autographs instead of forgeries.

metrotheme · December 1, 2009 7:16AM

Package sent today. I again apologize for any confusion caused.

fur72 · December 1, 2009 9:25AM

vladguerrero · December 1, 2009 10:12AM

My time is valuable and if I can recoup some of it, I'm ok with it.

Do you tell the athletes that? "Hey, Mr. Alan Houston, could you sign a second one for me? It's cold out here and I had to buy a coffee to keep warm, you took a little longer coming out of the hotel than I thought you would, I'm going to sell the second one to pay for it, my time ain't free ya know".

I personally would never sell a IP auto (I have tons of baseball stuff), aside from the joy/memories they give me I think it would be disrespectful to the athlete to sell it after they took their time to sign it for me. Giving it away to a kid or fellow collector is different but selling is imho distastefully opportunistic and what has generally given athletes a negative opinion of signing.

I'm glad you sent dizzle something.

metrotheme · December 1, 2009 10:36AM

Vlad -
I had the same stance as you up until about a year ago. As of late, I've felt differently about my time. My values have changed. Autographs I thought I was going to keep, I no longer wanted. It's not my primary motive for graphing IP. Space is becoming a consideration. I don't know how some of these folks that I see that walk away with 50+ cards signed (see people's threads when they graph minor league games) store all of them.
I stand by what I said. My book holds 3 cards on a page. I put out 1 page to the player. Sometimes I have 1 card of the player, other times it's 2 or 3. Some players sign 1, some sign 2, some sign all three, some ignore me completely. They're going to sign what they're going to sign. Resale is not my primary reason for going, but if I come away with some extras at the end of the night, I'm not against offering them up for sale or trading them. I know that the whopping $2 per card I've received is going to make me a rich man. I know I am not the only person on the board that has done this. If you want to make a moral judgment on it, you are definitely at will to do so.

I really hope this isn't going to turn into the "dump on the guy who has sold a few of his IP autographs" because that's how most autographs get onto the market. Most people's collections are eventually going to get sold. You might die and your wife doesn't want it or your kids don't appreciate it or your grandchildren don't care, etc etc. and they sell it to get whatever the market value is for it.

dizzle · December 7, 2009 2:12PM

Just an update incase anybody cares , I recieved some cards from Metrotheme scans below.
Thanks.

nam812 · December 7, 2009 2:16PM

How many would you have gotten without this thread?

dizzle · December 7, 2009 2:18PM

<< How many would you have gotten without this thread? >>

Hmm, I don't know.. what are you getting at?

nam812 · December 7, 2009 2:24PM

<< Hmm, I don't know.. what are you getting at? >>

The answer to my question is none.

dizzle · December 7, 2009 2:27PM

<< 

<< Hmm, I don't know.. what are you getting at? >>

The answer to my question is none. >>

Oh

I'm a bit slow this evening, Been stacking wood all day and it's in the 20's

hammered · December 7, 2009 2:47PM

Those guys didn't put much effort into their sigs
A couple loops and call it good
How to sign a legible auto should be part of rookie orientation

lawnmowerman · December 7, 2009 2:47PM

Nice cards Oliver!

Question.. how would you feel?

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