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Is Fred McGriff a HOFer?
doog71
Posts: 405 ✭✭
Arguments can be made for Alomar, Larkin, etc. but out of this year's first-time on the ballot class, he stands out to me as most deserving.
493 home runs look a lot better now than it did even 5 years ago. Take off the dopers from the all-time HR list from McGriff's era and few are at 500 HRs.
2500 hits (almost) so not just a HR guy.
1500+ RBI
30+ HR 10 times
Plus, by all accounts, a great guy on and off the field.
493 home runs look a lot better now than it did even 5 years ago. Take off the dopers from the all-time HR list from McGriff's era and few are at 500 HRs.
2500 hits (almost) so not just a HR guy.
1500+ RBI
30+ HR 10 times
Plus, by all accounts, a great guy on and off the field.
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I'd put him no higher than fourth on the most-deserving list though, after Bert Blyleven, Andre Dawson and Tim Raines.
Steve
Fred could play for me any day - good guy who gave you nice, consistent performance. But he's in the Hall of Very Good for me.
Tabe
<< <i>was he roid-free? >>
Obviously. He could turn sideways in a rainstorm and not get wet.
HOF? Not with today's criteria, possibly Old-Timers.
in each league. The others are McGwire and I think Harry Hellman or someone like that.
Off the top of my head the other 200 in each league players are McGwire and Frank Robby.
493 dingers I think puts him in.
First ballot? I dunno bout that. Depends on who he is up against.
If the field is really thin he has a shot.
Steve
<< <i>McGriff is one of 3 people to have led each league in homers AND one of 3 to have hit 200
in each league. The others are McGwire and I think Harry Hellman or someone like that.
Off the top of my head the other 200 in each league players are McGwire and Frank Robby.
493 dingers I think puts him in.
First ballot? I dunno bout that. Depends on who he is up against.
If the field is really thin he has a shot.
Steve >>
I would sum him up just like Steve did. Probably a HOFer but maybe not on the first ballot.
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that stat is not going to get him any votes, but I agree, it might take awhile for McGriff...more than a couple years. His most similar comp is Delgado.
5 All-Star appearances
1 appearance in the Top 5 of MVP voting (#4 in 1993)
of course he also played most of his career in markets like TOR, ATL, SD, TB etc so that never helps for a player on the fringe, but he does have 1 ring from the '95 WS and a very strong .303/.385/.532 Post-season slash line in 218 career PAs.
You can see comparative stats here
McGriff
<< <i>Arguments can be made for Alomar, Larkin, etc. but out of this year's first-time on the ballot class, he stands out to me as most deserving.
493 home runs look a lot better now than it did even 5 years ago. Take off the dopers from the all-time HR list from McGriff's era and few are at 500 HRs.
2500 hits (almost) so not just a HR guy.
1500+ RBI
30+ HR 10 times
Plus, by all accounts, a great guy on and off the field. >>
Look at the tag folks: "Major League Super Star" - not minor league and not a simple star.
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Edit: then again, the writers voted Joe Gordon as AL MVP over the Triple Crown winning Ted Williams, so anything's possible..
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<< <i>493 home runs isn't as big a deal as it used to be. >>
It is when you did it clean.
<< <i>Fred is a better than quite a few HOF'ers and he will be better than some of the folks who go in after he is forgotten. >>
If this is your argument, McGriff doesn't belong.
Tabe
Bonds
Griffey Jr.
Sosa
McGwire
ARod
Palmeiro
Thome
Ramirez
Frank Thomas
Gary Sheffield
McGriff
I agree it'll be a challenge for him to get in since he wasn't a big name. His numbers aren't as good as Eddie Murray's were, but he reminds me of Murray in that people don't immediately think of him based on great stats alone. I don't think you have to be "dominant" or even as famous as the next guy to make the Hall. If McGriff had 7 more home runs this wouldn't even be a discussion...he'd be in for sure.
Text
<< <i>
<< <i>493 home runs isn't as big a deal as it used to be. >>
It is when you did it clean. >>
The better question: was he clean? Hate to think that way, since Fred McGriff was one of my favorite players. After Palmeiro admitted using steroids, you have to question almost any players these days. All in all, he still seems like a border line hall of famer.
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No 56 home run season like Gonzo or Brady Anderson (50)
He stats generally flow like you would think they would, one abberation is a 30 home run season very late in his career
but that could be because he was on the Cubs and played 81 games at Wrigley.
When your name can be mentioned with Lou Gerhig I think you are in good company.
Steve
<< <i>
He stats generally flow like you would think they would, one abberation is a 30 home run season very late in his career
but that could be because he was on the Cubs and played 81 games at Wrigley.
Steve >>
In 2002 , Fred played a whole seaon with the Cubs. He hit 30 HRs with 11 coming at home.
He did hit 31 the year before , playing with Tampa Bay and the Cubbies.
Yes I know he played the whole season with the Cubs, I missed the previous yr. though
seeing it was split between 2 teams, makes his case even better since the 30 he hit with the
Cubs is not an abberation then.
Wish I knew how to spell 'aberation'
abbaration?
nope.
Steve
that list of sluggers is very telling:
Bonds: roid rage
Griffey Jr. : drug free, legit, should have 700+ homers if not for injury
Sosa: roids, clorox skin cleaner
McGwire: poster boy for lying,
ARod: embarassment
Palmeiro: should be in jail
Thome: legit slugger, reminds me of killebrew
Ramirez: moron, liar and a cheat
Frank Thomas: classy, legit
Gary Sheffield: scum, roids, loser
McGriff: classy, overlooked,
He has 473 and should be playing (somewhere) next yr.
For the record I do not think he is a HOF'r
Steve
<< <i>The better question: was he clean? Hate to think that way, since Fred McGriff was one of my favorite players. After Palmeiro admitted using steroids, you have to question almost any players these days. All in all, he still seems like a border line hall of famer. >>
I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to everyone who doesn't have a suspicious record or any credible allegation or proof against them. doog71 and VintageCardLover's lists are essentially in line with my thinking.
Of the many bad things 'roiders did, throwing off the record book is one of the very worst. That we have to pick through the debris of the all time HR list like this is reason enough for all of them to be held in disdain for many years.
<< <i>Sonny
Yes I know he played the whole season with the Cubs, I missed the previous yr. though
seeing it was split between 2 teams, makes his case even better since the 30 he hit with the
Cubs is not an abberation then.
Wish I knew how to spell 'aberation'
abbaration?
nope.
Steve >>
Tabe
aberration
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<< <i>You forgot to add Delgado to the list.
He has 473 and should be playing (somewhere) next yr.
For the record I do not think he is a HOF'r
Steve >>
Not sure if you thought McGriff is a HOF'er but Delgado's similiarity score at age 37 is closest to Mcgriff's.
McGriff, Delgado
Just go to the bottom of the page for similiarity scores. Delgado probably is more likely to have done steroids then McGriff. Not sure,though.
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I was always a Crimedog fan growing up.
My old stepdad played against him a few times in Little League and Senior League.
Funny thing is when he played for TB, my new step grandmother was his housekeeper.
what about these stats from the same era.i am not saying that this guy should be in but they just arent enough.
??????
Batting average .289
Hits 2,866
Home runs 384
Runs batted in 1,628
Steve
He's in the group of major leaguers who are as close as you can be, but just not HOF material.
Fred McGriff should NEVER be considered until Gil Hodges is inducted!
.. A link to his batting stats
I think he will get in, not on the first ballot, but I think his consistency and presence in the game will get him inducted.
<< <i>Harold Baines should be in too.
Steve >>
Aw come on. We're talking about a guy who was a DH for most of his career who put up pretty good - but nowhere near great - numbers for a slugger. Topped 25 HRs just ONCE. Topped 100 RBI three times. Led the league in just one category (SLG% in 1984). ONE top 10 MVP finish in his career. If you think a guy who put up .289/21/85 every year - without ever having a .320/35/120 season - is worthy of the HOF, then I dunno. Putting Baines in the HOF just lowers the bar, IMHO. If he'd been a stellar defensive 2B or SS, I'd listen. But a horrible defensive outfielder who played DH for the majority of his career? Not a chance.
Tabe
<< <i>I don't know where people are getting the thought that McGriff wasn't considered a great player or potential HOF? He played for the Braves and was their best hitter for alot of years during their huge playoff runs. He was a AS most of those years as well. He was very consistent for them and until he left was on a HOF path and it was assumed he'd hit 500 HRs. I think because he played out his final few years in obscurity people just forgot how good he was with the Braves. >>
He only played with the Braves for 4 1/2 years. He also played teams for like the Rays,Bluejays, and Padres, not really sure why that matters? Being the best player on your team isn't the same as being a hall-of-famer.
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I think Dawson gets in this year due to the Jim Rice factor. Raines may have to wait a little longer due to his coke (not cola) issue.
Homerun totals by age.
Age 27 31
Age 28 35
Age 29 37
Age 30 34
Age 31 27
Age 32 28
Age 33 22
Age 34 19
Age 35 32
Age 36 27
Age 37 31
Age 38 30
I suppose having 2800+ hits means nothing as well.
Who cares that he never led the league in anything.
CONSISTENCY is what he was all about.
As for being a crappy outfielder I disagree their too.
Early on he was a pretty decent one.
Steve
<< <i>Real simple...
Fred McGriff should NEVER be considered until Gil Hodges is inducted! >>
LOL at the thought of Hodges being more deserving than the Crime Dog.
I would not vote for either, but McGriff is closer. I would not vote for Dawson, Morris, Rice or Sutter. I would vote for Raines, Blyleven, Santo, and Trammell. Unfortunately (for me) my opinion is worth squat.
<< <i>Back to Baines I guess being 28th all time in RBI's means nothing to some people.
I suppose having 2800+ hits means nothing as well.
Who cares that he never led the league in anything.
CONSISTENCY is what he was all about.
As for being a crappy outfielder I disagree their too.
Early on he was a pretty decent one.
Steve >>
Don't really see baines as a Hall-Of-Famer. He was a solid player and was very consistent, but hall of fame? He got very few MVP votes,never led the league in anything, not the type of player that should be in the hall.
The Hall-Of-Fame is for the absolute best players, not the very good players.
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<< <i>He got very few MVP Votes >>
MVP votes???????? Really can you come up with a more subjective measurement? Your saying if a guy was the 5th best player in the league for 15 consecutive years he wouldn't be a HOFer?