If you care about quality AND price, you're screwed...

MrEureka

Let's say that 60% of the classic coins are less-than-wholesome and/or less-than-attractive, 30% are relatively low end for the assigned grade, 8% are solid, and 2% are PQ. So if you're looking for a solid or PQ coin, the opportunities are sparse, the competition is fierce, and bargains are a dream.

What now?

MikeInFL

Pay up.

Barndog

find one of the two percenters and buy it, of course.

mozin

Sometime one simply needs to through away the price sheets, and buy that extra nice find.

MidLifeCrisis

Collect baseball cards.

SeaEagleCoins

have someone like Andy or TDN adopt you and hope they give you a big allowance ...

ColonialCoinUnion

Breaking news: the best and most desirable things of any kind are the most expensive.

adamlaneus

rld14

Hmmm... it's funny how the better date Baerber Halves that I own that seem undergraded and are nice original coins also seem to be the ones I paid the highest premiums for.

Funny how that is.

roadrunner

If the coins are in the hands of a very knowledgeable and technically saavy dealer, yes, you're odds are near zero of getting a deal. But forunately many coins come back in conservative holders their first time through or show up on your local B&M's doorstep where few of them can really tell a superior PQ coin from an ok one. That's where you can find a deal in both price and quality. Those deals are often snapped up by roving bands of crack out dealers or guys driving through on buying trips.

A recent submission of a bunch of nice early Indian cents came through my local B&M. Out of approx 3 dozen pieces I'd say that 2/3 of them came back in the lowest possible grade they could have received. Coins that were 64+ or 64++ with 70-85% RED were getting 64 RB grades. What's not to like? Only 2 imo were graded higher than I thought they would. So opportunities do exist.

roadrunner

pennyannie

It is PQ and priced high, on resell it is just average. Most collectors would be better off money wise without buying the pq widget.

Billet7

I would buy your 8% solid coins. I don't have the kind of money required to buy the top 2%, and I would say that the top 10% are always going to be a good coins, in demand, and good investments. If you can't get the best, you might as well get close to it.

RedTiger

Why not aim for that wide middle, and seek average coins at average prices and be happy, and enjoy the hobby?

The truth is that about 80% of collectors don't grade well enough to be playing the PQ game. If a person is looking for the top 10% of coins for a given grade, the collector had better be at least in the top 20% of grading ability. If they are looking for the top 2% of coins, the collector needs to be in the top 5% of grading ability.

The collector of average grading ability will enjoy the hobby a lot more playing to their aptitude, rather than pretending and being a poser, when they don't have the grading chops to play in the higher leagues.

SkyMan

I think it also kind of depends where you are mentally. I was at the Santa Clara show last week. I found some nice coins and a lot of dreck and/or messed with coins. As you mentioned, the nice coins were priced at a substantial premium to graysheet. Now, I do not have a problem paying a premium price for a premium coin (or even a solid coin for the grade), but some of the premiums were flat out ridiculous. A variety of the nice coins I saw were bought raw by the dealers and came back slabbed in a (sometimes substantially) lower grade than they thought it should. The dealers were asking for what they paid plus a profit. Of course there is nothing wrong with that... obviously that is how the system works. However, basically they are asking YOU to pay for their mistakes. I just was not up for that sort of thing and as there was nothing that really "sang" to me at the show I walked away without buying anything (except for a couple inexpensive dark side coins).

Bochiman

These "'percentages" you speak of....another of your hypotheticals or are you using numbers that you actually perceive?
Also, are you comparing across the board to all series or have a certain series in mind?

airplanenut

That's not a fair comparison. A premium price may well be a bargain for the right coin. The "bargains" for any given grade are likely sorely lacking in some area, and likely are only bargains in number.

soty27

<< <i>Pay up. >>

Bear

I collect coins in the 1,000 to 6000 dollar range.

I have found that in the present rather soft market,

I can find PQ type at reasonable prices with out having

to chase them price wise. Of course, It pays to have a small

group of select dealers that I do bussiness with to bring such

coins to my attention. Such coins are hard to find, but they

are out there if you know where to look. Collectors want nice

looking premium coins in as original condition as possible.If you

do not collect the best for what ever grade you collect, you will

generally take a beating price wise when it is time to sell.

fc

stop collecting solid/pq classic coins unless you want to pay moon money
to be able to stuff they away into a safety deposit box and see them
once a year if that.

a lot of this hobby revolves around prestige and competition which
is mainly based on how large a wallet you have which i find sad to say
the least.

i admire other aspects of the hobby and the high rollers are truly the
most boring of the lot. oh wow. you spent 100,000 at auction on a near
perfect coin. moving on...

what is more interesting are the people who actually research things,
find a new discovery, create coins like the amero, etc... that is what
nusmis is all about. not a fat wallet to impress people with buying
high priced coins that are solid/PQ.

what now? lulz. 1

i just found the post coming from a dealer to be funny. what now?
i know! find a trusted dealer and tell them money is no object!
i highly doubt you will end up with the top 2% as it is highly unlikely
that one dealer will even get a chance to buy the top 2% let alone
see them.

Bear

Much depends on the collector having trained their eye

to be able to identify the superior coin in a series and to

purchase it. If you can not tell the dross from the gems, then

a big wallet and a score card ,will not save you from a screwing.

After all, why should a dealer sell you a top of the line coin instead

of an average coin If you are too stupid to know and appreciate the difference.

I have paid my tuition as most collectors have in the cruel world.

Painful as it was, It forced me to become educated to what I

needed to collect.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>stop collecting solid/pq classic coins unless you want to pay moon money
to be able to stuff they away into a safety deposit box and see them
once a year if that. >>


I agree, mostly.



<< <i>a lot of this hobby revolves around prestige and competition which
is mainly based on how large a wallet you have which i find sad to say
the least. >>


Sad to say, I agree with this, too.



<< <i>i admire other aspects of the hobby and the high rollers are truly the
most boring of the lot. oh wow. you spent 100,000 at auction on a near
perfect coin. moving on... >>


I don't agree 100%, but there is some truth there. SOME of the high rollers and the uber-specialists can be a bit... eh... one-dimensional.

Who has to compete for that 2% of PQ coins? I'll settle for the 8% that are solid, or if I'm priced out of that market, I'll go with some of the 30% that are "relatively low end" by the big boys' standards.

One man's trash, another man's treasure. You know the saying.

There's room for fun to be had in every tier of the numismatic marketplace. It's too easy to get caught up in lamenting about the stuff one cannot afford, or the competition for widely sought-after material. I know. I do it too. But since my budget is that of a mere mortal, I've learned to cope. And enjoy myself nonetheless.

Know your place in the market, and shoot for what's "nice" or "high end" in that particular range. And don't forget to have fun ... leave the "investing" behind sometimes and enjoy a hobby.

Longacre

Crack the coin or disregard what the holder says. An overgraded slabbed MS61 is a high end raw 55-58.

JZrarities

At the time of selling, you just need to convince someone else that your 2% coin, is what it is. PQ

The problem is everyone else is doing the same for the other 98% dreck.

SO:

coinguy1

Each of us has budget limitations for buying coins, though they differ greatly from one person to another. Ditto for varying tastes and preferences, as well.

The key is to balance the funds we have available for spending against what we want to buy as best we can. It takes planning, patience, organization, self control and the ability to know when to pay up for or pass on a certain coin. And some individuals are much better at those things than others. That is often evident when viewing their collections.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>If you care about quality AND price, you're screwed... >>

One problem with this is that "quality" is a rather nebulous term, subject to different people's personal tastes and whims. What I consider "quality" would be ho-hum to many of you with bigger budgets, or different tastes.

Maybe that's a good thing, and a factor that keeps the wheels turning in the marketplace.