Does this coin actually belong in a PCGS holder?

Resplandor · November 22, 2009 10:06AM

...because it would be news to me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1983-MO-MEXICO-SILVER-ONZA-GRADED-PR68DCAM-BY-PCGS_W0QQitemZ110459341298QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19b7e3c9f2

I know this may be one of those stupid questions but it is one that's bugging me.
Also, it would be nice if someone here could post pics or make a direct link to it since it's a little late for me and I need to go to bed.
Thanks

1960NYGiants · November 22, 2009 10:11AM

linky

Why not? They slab Eagles, Maples, Pandas, and Brittanias, too.

lordmarcovan · November 22, 2009 10:15AM

Eh, why not?

Let's see 'em try to slab THIS, on the other hand...

Zohar · November 22, 2009 10:16AM

1960NYGiants · November 22, 2009 10:25AM

<< Eh, why not?

Let's see 'em try to slab THIS, on the other hand...

>>

WOW - are you the winning bidder, LordM?

ajaan · November 22, 2009 10:32AM

I bet that coin's headed for mother Russia.

lordmarcovan · November 22, 2009 10:45AM

Nope, I didn't buy that, though it's neat. Savoyspecial just pointed it out to me a few minutes ago.

Resplandor · November 22, 2009 7:27PM

<< linky

Why not? They slab Eagles, Maples, Pandas, and Brittanias, too. >>

Yes I understand but unlike Eagles, Maples, Pandas and Brittanias that actually came from their respective official mints I had no idea the Casa de Moneda of Mexico produced this Cuauhtemoc.

I looked and looked and I just don't see the famous Mo mint mark.
How do I know it is an official issue?

Resplandor · November 22, 2009 7:30PM

By the way, thank you Gene and Zohar for putting a direct link and pic.

TwoKopeiki · November 23, 2009 3:20AM

I really don't think this belongs in a PCGS holder. There isn't an official denomination called "Onza". Maple leafs, pandas, and such have a denomination associated with them. I would call this medallic bullion.

pruebas · November 23, 2009 4:13AM

This must be a mechanical error. It is NOT a Mexican Mint product. It is a silver round minted by some private mint.

Resplandor · November 23, 2009 5:44AM

<< I really don't think this belongs in a PCGS holder. There isn't an official denomination called "Onza". Maple leafs, pandas, and such have a denomination associated with them. I would call this medallic bullion. >>

<< This must be a mechanical error. It is NOT a Mexican Mint product. It is a silver round minted by some private mint. >>

That's what I thought!

zeebob · November 23, 2009 6:24AM

The seller ended his listing with "God Bless" and a little smiley face. I guess everything must be good.

Edited to add: And the PCGS verification checked out - Link

pruebas · November 23, 2009 1:27PM

<< There isn't an official denomination called "Onza". >>

True, but they slab Onzas all the time and label them as such. Pattern Onzas too.

The problem is not the denomination or lack thereof. The problem is that they slabbed it 1983-Mo which states it is an official issue of Mexico (Mo being the mintmark) when in fact its merely a silver round made by a private minting firm (perhaps not even in Mexico).

worldcoinguy · November 23, 2009 1:48PM

I think that piece undermines the PCGS brand a bit. Whats next - slabbing 1 oz birthday rounds?

TwoKopeiki · November 23, 2009 3:11PM

<< 

<< There isn't an official denomination called "Onza". >>

True, but they slab Onzas all the time and label them as such. Pattern Onzas too.

The problem is not the denomination or lack thereof. The problem is that they slabbed it 1983-Mo which states it is an official issue of Mexico (Mo being the mintmark) when in fact its merely a silver round made by a private minting firm (perhaps not even in Mexico). >>

The fact that they do shows that they remain inconsistent with their rules. They slab modern mint rounds, but refuse to slab my 18th-19th century mint-issued proclamation coinage due to the lack of denomination. How's that fair?

pruebas · November 23, 2009 3:42PM

<< They slab modern mint rounds, but refuse to slab my 18th-19th century mint-issued proclamation coinage due to the lack of denomination. How's that fair? >>

I hear ya, Roman. It's shortsighted. The other outfit across the street will slab 'em, but PCGS stubbornly refuses. Darn shame too as procs are beautiful, historic, and valuable.

jessecarlk · November 24, 2009 7:12AM

Krause does list "onzas" with that as their denomination. Also, just because it doesn't have the Mo mintmark doesn't make it not a true Mexican piece. Krause lists a pattern 1983 Onza without the Mo mintmark. But, I believe it to be of the "Libertad" design. I'm not making an excuse for this piece, as I also do not feel that silver rounds (which this is) should be slabbed. But that does not mean that a true Mexican issue 1983 Onza without the Mo mintmark doesn't exist.

edited to add that I found a reference number for this piece: X# MB18. But, I don't know what it is referencing to.

pruebas · November 24, 2009 8:47AM

Jesse, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the piece in question is NOT a product of Mo (Casa de Moneda de Mexico). There is a mintmark on the reverse of the piece--it looks like WWM. Does anyone know what company ("mint") that stands for?

Here is another auction where the photos are larger: link

About Krause, they royally screwed up the Mexican pattern section years ago and to compound the problem, they removed what few photos they had in the section. I would argue its almost completely useless for identification now.

The pattern onza you refer to (is it Pn300?) is actually a pattern proof onza (part of the set KM-PS2) and it has a Mo mintmark. I own the coin so I can confirm this. Mintage=2.

pruebas · November 24, 2009 8:54AM

It looks like WWM=Worldwide Mint Inc. of Minneapolis, MN.

They don't seem to have a website. Perhaps they are out of business.

jessecarlk · November 24, 2009 1:54PM

<< Jesse, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the piece in question is NOT a product of Mo (Casa de Moneda de Mexico). There is a mintmark on the reverse of the piece--it looks like WWM. Does anyone know what company ("mint") that stands for?

Here is another auction where the photos are larger: link

About Krause, they royally screwed up the Mexican pattern section years ago and to compound the problem, they removed what few photos they had in the section. I would argue its almost completely useless for identification now.

The pattern onza you refer to (is it Pn300?) is actually a pattern proof onza (part of the set KM-PS2) and it has a Mo mintmark. I own the coin so I can confirm this. Mintage=2. >>

I know that it's not an Mo coin. I'm just saying that a Mexican coin doesn't need to have the Mo mintmark in order for it to be a Mexican coin.

I'd love to see a pic of the pattern if you have one handy.

Does this coin actually belong in a PCGS holder?

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