Newp: 1878-S Trade Dollar
kaz
Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was fortunate enough to win this 1878-S Trade Dollar, graded AU53 by PCGS, in a recent eBay auction held by one of this forum's members.
I really like the coin, and took a close look with my lens, and was surprised to find:
I believe it's a DDR. I would appreciate confirmation from other members, and if I am correct, I would appreciate any comments as to scarcity, etc.
Thanks, Kaz
I really like the coin, and took a close look with my lens, and was surprised to find:
I believe it's a DDR. I would appreciate confirmation from other members, and if I am correct, I would appreciate any comments as to scarcity, etc.
Thanks, Kaz
0
Comments
Life is good.
Just not something you see everyday
just kidd'n
bob
Just asking, but is that die polish on the surface, or wear?
Nice coin. Yup...it's a DDR. The doubling is most notable in the arrows and the 4 in "420". This is a interesting double as the 1878-S DDR is a combination of both 2M and 2L hubs. The 2M hub is from the 77-S broken hub variety and is the 1st imprint, and the final IIL hub was used in the second die imprint. If you look very closely (I wrote an article about this a few years ago in the Gobrecht Journal), you can see partial arrow shafts on the bottom shaft. Nice coin and reasonably scarce.
keoj
Nice pictures...what did you use to take them?
keoj
<< <i>A Morgan with hairlines like that would have never made it to grade. >>
It probably would if it were a rarer date. And since a common trade dollar is about on par with a rarer Morgan, there ya go.
<< <i>
<< <i>A Morgan with hairlines like that would have never made it to grade. >>
It probably would if it were a rarer date. And since a common trade dollar is about on par with a rarer Morgan, there ya go.
[Chortle!] Good one, TDN!
Obscurum per obscurius
Thicker than Bisquick I'd say. I have an NGC MS62 of this variety. I had never examined that area on the edge of the right wing before. Never had any reason to. But upon seeing your coin, I have looked at it closely under a 16x and indeed there is the beginning of a lump of extra metal in the same location. On my coin, you wouldn't even notice it with the naked eye, but under magnification, it clearly extends out into the field a bit.
I think one has to consider the possibility that there was a die chip that grew over time as coins were struck. If so, your coin could represent a late die stage of this particular variety and could have some extra rarity/value associated with being from a late die stage.
There is no mention of this lump of metal as a die marker in either the Cherrypickers Guide or in Breens Encyclopedia. I would like to hear from keoj as to whether he has previously made note of or hypothesized about the cause of this anomoly.
Normal premium for this variety is about 2X, although it is tougher to find in high au and ms. Even then though...it's a thin market IMO... and even though I've never tried to sell my coin, I suspect it would have to be marketed to a target audience. The variety, while bold, is not popular enough to cause people to crash down your door looking for it. Just sayin', IMO. I'm going to give a quick look to some past auction photo's and see if I can find any other die state. My picture taking sucks enought that I'm not at all sure I can get an image of the area in question on my coin...but I'll try. My coin wasn't bought out of auction so there are no auction images for me to post.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
Now I'm interested in learning whether there are any DDR's with NO EVIDENCE of this chip (very early die stage) and/or how large this chip became before the die was retired. So far, of the half dozen or so coins in hand or in images I've been able to look at of this variety, they ALL have the die chip to some degree..just a matter of how large.
Also wondering if these exist with chop marks???
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
nickels, dims, quarters and halfs that came back from PCGS for being cleaned.
And they were right; someone had taken a fine wire brush and scrubbed areas on both sides of the coin.
Sometimes they are very difficult to see but get it in sunlight and they show up. I don't know if this
kind of cleaning was acceptable to collectors back in the "old days" but it sure does, in my opinion and
admittedly little experience, to have been pretty prevalent.
And I think the poster above is right too; if this was a 1878 s Morgan there is, in my mind and opinion, a
decent chance it would be in Genuine plastic.
Tell me where to look for this die piece on the 78-S DDR. I have a nice high grade piece and will look...jsut need a little more guidance in what I'm looking for.
keoj
keoj
<< <i>My picture is not great...can you guys see it?
keoj >>
You're looking in the wrong spot - the exact opposite quadrant to be exact!
Draw a straight line from the first A in AMERICA through the tip of the scroll to the eagle's wing. There it is. Looks like a cud to me.
Keoj
<< <i>This area? I'm dense.....I think that I see it now.
Keoj >>
Yes, but there isn't one on your coin
Okay, okay. Now I see it (I was looking at my coin way too hard trying to see something that is obviously not there). You are correct, my DDR does not have the die chip. This looks like a die state issue where a chip in the die might have been knoked off due to usage. Thanks for being patient with my dimness.
keoj