Topps Vault cards............
tennesseebanker
Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭
Is Beckett the only grader who will slab Topps Vault Cards ?
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<< <i>no--i have some 1958 baseball original negatives (positives) that are slabbed (but not graded) by psa. >>
So PSA will slab the positives? Will they slab original negatives?
<< <i>
<< <i>no--i have some 1958 baseball original negatives (positives) that are slabbed (but not graded) by psa. >>
So PSA will slab the positives? Will they slab original negatives? >>
Whether meant or not !!!!
Lol
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>no--i have some 1958 baseball original negatives (positives) that are slabbed (but not graded) by psa. >>
So PSA will slab the positives? Will they slab original negatives? >>
Whether meant or not !!!!
Lol
??
He seemed to say he's got positives (which I assume are some sort of proof prints) slabbed, but I want to know if they'll slab the original negatives.
What am I missing?
<< <i>no--i have some 1958 baseball original negatives (positives) that are slabbed (but not graded) by psa. >>
can we see what they look like?
Not that they are not legit its just probably too much to catalouge each and every one
of these proofs and such. I think they should but thats just me.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
I would just like them slabbed authentic by someone other than Beckett. Here is an example of one I have.........................
<< <i>I am wanting to know if anyone else will Slab,not necessarily grade these proof cards, issued by the Topps Vault.
I would just like them slabbed authentic by someone other than Beckett. Here is an example of one I have.........................
why would you bother? that slab looks more than good...
what i have are three original color photos (that are the original photos topps used to make the cards from) that are all slabbed by psa as "authentic"; i bought them from a guy who bought a ton (literally) of stuff in the 1989 topps/guernsey's auction; at the national in chicago in 2005 and anaheim in 2006 he had literally tons of these from 1957 thru i think 1962 or so (from commons to superstars to combo cards like the 1957 dodgers sluggers and the 1958 mantle/aaron; simply great stuff!!); he called them "positives" and his reason/explanation for this (if i remember correctly) was because unlike photo negatives that are usually one color (sepia) these are full color and the original photos that the photographer took (besides, they didnt have that eerie image/shadow appearance that photo negatives have), and the exact image on the photo became the image on the card. he explained the process to me at least a couple times at each national but i cant remember everything he said, but they are slabbed by psa (i bought them from him that way).
i know over the years the topps vault has been selling on ebay original photos that never ended up being used on cards, but i dont think i remember them selling the actual photos that were used on the cards.
What I have, I believe, is called a file copy. They were actually printed on card stock and are blank backed. They would be the finished product of what the front of the card would look like before going to the production process, It was probably used as a guide or template or for reference.
I believe what you have or are referring to are photo negatives used on cards or supposedly for cards, and yes, Topps vault is now selling the original photos that appeared on the cards.
You also have proof sequence cards that show the different color process and usually appear as a lone color of the card or a strip.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
First - we must distinguish between pre-production and production proofs.
The production proofs come from the actual printing plates that have been made - so the selection of which photos they will be using for the card has been established.
The ones ya get from the 'vault' are usually blankbacked and will look exactly like the card - like the one Barry is showing - here's another example - which is a 73T Candy Lid proof:
or a blankbacked strip proof from the 52T reprint set:
or they may do a color separation proof to check each individual primary color from the plates - sorry I don't have one in my photobucket right now.
The preproduction proofs are totally different - there's basically 3 kinds which are used for the "selection" process of what photos they will be using on the actual Topps cards:
Types of proofs:
1. Contact proof - which seems to coincide with "positional" proof - type of monochrome prepress proof which is inexpensive. E.g's: blueline, Velox or RC paper.
It's used to check position where color is not as critical.
2. Overlay proof - the example I showed of the Rizzuto card. They're individual color acetate sheets - so one can check the individual color and then overlay them - check the registration and then place against a white background. E.g.'s: Chromacheck and Color key.
3. Laminate proof - the example I showed of the Reggie card. The most expensive of the proofs and is made from the negatives to make the printing plates.
Sorry I don't have them in my new photobucket account and I'm at work. I do have an example of the most expensive and best proof which is the Laminate proof - specifically called a "Matchprint" proof:
this is from the 73T set:
Another example - but smaller - is the final proof photo for the 63T set:
So, if someone has a positive picture, it can be either a preproductgion contact proof or a liminate/matchprint proof.
What I'm giving you is from experience and not gospel - I may be off a bit but this is a good basic idea of what's going on.
<< <i>I am wanting to know if anyone else will Slab,not necessarily grade these proof cards, issued by the Topps Vault. I would just like them slabbed authentic by someone other than Beckett. Here is an example of one I have.........................
What yoy have is a direct slab by topps through Beckett. When topps sold "file copies" they sent them directly to Beckett, received them back , then sold them through topps vault auctions.
I know old fashion negatives (acetate film) PSA slabbed at one time, wether they still do I do not know. I do know PSA didn't grade or encapsulate the last printing plates I sent IN.
SKY
Thanks for all the info, that's some good stuff right there. Now let me ask a dumb question....I have a couple of what I believe are negatives from the Topps Vault. I've never cracked them
out of the holders they came in, but I think they are acetate film, black and white. Are those considered negatives and what part of the process are they used in. They kind of threw me off
because one of them, a 1962, has the card border in black and white with the curl where the name was printed. I would think a negative would be just the players picture, not the design of the card.
Any ideas?
Barry,
Have you tried contacting Joe O. directly? He may be willing to slab your items if asked. I kinda like the slab it's in because of the pedigree on the label showing it is directly from the Topps Vault. But that's just my personal taste. Please keep us up to date on what happens as I have a few Topps Vault items I would like slabbed too.
Thanks for bringing some knowledge in on these cards, Jackstraw, Those 76 Topps are incredible on E-bay, So it looks like SGC slabbed them at one time, Although Brian over at SGC just told me they don't now. I wish I knew why they don't currently slab them.
If the proof card encapsulated by BGS is strictly a blank back proof, then we would be able to encapsulate it as authentic. If it has file references on the back from Topps, then we could not. We do not note that it is from Topps vault and we do not designate them file copy cards.
<< <i>I have this one and I'd much rather have it in a PSA or SGC holder. Mine is also a "file copy" but it's not blank-backed. I know BVG slabs are supposed to be stronger, I just don't like them.
Jim
I assume you know that you have an actual card that would go into a pack but was held back as a file copy(s) - which they had graded by Beckett. Since it has "file copy" on the flip, it has a special significance rather than just a card from a pack - I'm not saying any extra monetary value - necessarily - but definitely historical significance and value in that sense IMO.
I would recommend keeping it where it is based on that fact.
mike
<< <i>Mike,
Thanks for all the info, that's some good stuff right there. Now let me ask a dumb question....I have a couple of what I believe are negatives from the Topps Vault. I've never cracked them
out of the holders they came in, but I think they are acetate film, black and white. Are those considered negatives and what part of the process are they used in. They kind of threw me off
because one of them, a 1962, has the card border in black and white with the curl where the name was printed. I would think a negative would be just the players picture, not the design of the card.
Any ideas?
Barry,
Have you tried contacting Joe O. directly? He may be willing to slab your items if asked. I kinda like the slab it's in because of the pedigree on the label showing it is directly from the Topps Vault. But that's just my personal taste. Please keep us up to date on what happens as I have a few Topps Vault items I would like slabbed too. >>
Ted
I've never bought negatives - but I thought they were just from the photos - I have no idea what role the neg plays in the production process - my guess? The negative may be used in producing the plate - since that would make the plate "positive" - which is the way they come.
Now - if anyone is interested - since the plates are POSITIVE, if they added ink and printed DIRECTLY onto the stock - the pic would be backwards - thus they use an OFFSET printing process to make the cards - that means the ink from the plate is TRANSFERRED to a equal sized "rubber" roller which then presses onto the card stock.
Reason? Less wear and tear on the aluminum plates so they will last longer is my guess.
mike
<< <i>Now - if anyone is interested - since the plates are POSITIVE, if they added ink and printed DIRECTLY onto the stock - the pic would be backwards - thus they use an OFFSET printing process to make the cards - that means the ink from the plate is TRANSFERRED to a equal sized "rubber" roller which then presses onto the card stock. >>
From what I remember from college, the off-set press used for making web based sheets would use the off-set method because the paper would be more likely to slip on the metal. If not, it'd be likely to scratch the metal. Either way, you end up with more smearing on a web-based press without using off-set methods.
Now, that said, it seems more likely that Topps would use sheet-fed printing as opposed to web-printing. That would imply that the final printing plates would be negatives, not positives.
Think of it this way:
Source image ---> Negative ---> Inverted positive color separation ---> Negative Printing plate ---> Positive final output.
I'm sure I missed a step (or four) in the process, but it would look something like that.
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