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SGC -----> PSA CROSSOVER PROBLEM

msohnmsohn Posts: 61 ✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
Hello All - I know that this topic has been addressed before but I would to get some feedback and advice from you all.

I recently sent in 10 cards (1915 Cracker Jack) graded by SGC ranging from 88 to 96 and stated the PSA-equivalent grade as the minimum crossover grade. I was very disappointed to see that PSA would accept for crossover only 1 of the 10 cards at the equivalent level as SGC. And now I am told by customer service that I would have to send back the cards and pay for review (another $60 per card). I probably have 100+ CJs in PSA 8 or higher, and I see no reason why these SGC cards are not in least the same PSA grade.

Thank you in advance.

Comments

  • jimq112jimq112 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭
    Completely off-topic - did you buy a card or some cards from dunkindoughnuts? If I have the right person please send me a PM and let me know how it ended. I think I was talking about you yesterday.
    image
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    M Sohn you might have better results if you crack and sub that way.

    Or don't ask for a minimum grade.

    They can't see the edges and rarely cross cards.


    I think Jim is talking about that Gerhig.


    Steve


    Good for you.
  • MorgothMorgoth Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭
    without seeing the cards it is hard to say what the issue was. If they are centered (SGC is known for no centering qualifiers) and look like your other 8's you probably would have to crack them out to get them in the right holders.

    These are big cards and using PSA's crossover service isn't the best thing IMO. I can't see them just handing out PSA 9s on cracker jacks without cracking out the cards first. IMO you are getting a very conservative grade when you use the crossover service. The cards basically have to look like they are 1 grade over their current grade to get the cross. Otherwise you would be better cracking them out to get the grades you want.

    I would suggest going to Chicago in Nov. and meeting with Joe O and PSA there to discuss.
    Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,261 ✭✭✭✭
    I ask the question again. Does this service really exist? This is something that PSA has never really addressed. Saying minimum grade or trimmed and then the person cracks them out and they grade and sometimes higher is getting old. I've never personally witnessed a card over $1000 crossed over. I'll go one step further: I don't know of anyone who has done this. On $1000 cards I'm like 0 for 10. I'm talking SGC 88's and 92's that were centered. I only requested a 8 minimum. I wouldn't even think of submitting a SGC 92 and requesting a 8.5 minimum. This topic actually makes me wonder about the whole grading process. I know exactly what the OP is going through.
  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭
    SGC is much more lax on centering from that issue. Just a thought
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,627 ✭✭✭✭
    It's politics Min. PSA will cross low $ cards to prove that they will actually do so. But high $ stuff, very rarely. It's a farce. I think the potential for damaging a card may factor in. Is it really worth the risk of damaging a high $ card for a $60 review?
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • vladguerrerovladguerrero Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭
    First off every company's crossover service is a scam. What did the notes say on your cards? Did they indicate centering specifically? Since when is review $60 a card?
  • yawie99yawie99 Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭


    << <i>First off every company's crossover service is a scam. >>



    I disagree. I've sent several high-dollar-by-my-armpit-standards cards in their PSA holders to SGC. One went from a PSA 1 to an SGC 20 or 30; several crossed perfectly; one was downgraded from a 2 to a 20, with which I totally agreed; and one, a PSA 4, did not meet my MG of 50, another decision with which I generally agreed.

    If there is a scam to SGC's crossover service, it could be in the opposite direction of PSA's apparent tendency to reject the great majority of cards submitted for crossover: the company's vested interest in getting cards out of competitors' holders and into their own. That thought crosses my mind sometimes, but SGC has been fair and consistent with the PSA cards I've submitted.
    imageimageimageimageimageimage
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭
    I agree as well...sent a recent 1939 Goudey Premium PSA 5....the card looked weak compared to SGC graded equivalents.....the card came back SGC 5 (an even cross).....can't say the same for my crosses the other way.....
  • smtjoysmtjoy Posts: 617
    I feel your pain but the only way they will cross is by cracking and resubbing to PSA. PSA should just cancel this service for anything over $250, its a huge waste of money for the submitter.

    << First off every company's crossover service is a scam. >>

    I totally disagree, I have sent in over 100 cards for crossover to SGC and have been very happy with the results. They are fair and while I had many get lower grades I felt the grades were right on. A couple of these were 1k+ value cards.

  • scoutsout47scoutsout47 Posts: 520 ✭✭
    The crossover results certainly vary from one guy to the next, but of my last ten (10) Cracker Jack crossovers from SGC, seven (7) returned with an equivalent grade. I can live with a C average, but I can also understand your frustration. Winpitcher is right, though, that your other alternative would be to crack 'em, although such a move would require a brass pair.
    Always looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks in a uniform PSA 3 (NQ)

    psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset.aspx?s=223023&ac=1
  • KbKardsKbKards Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭
    Crossing a 3 grade Cracker Jack over is a little different than crossing an 8 or 9. High grade Cracker Jacks are challenging to grade. You're asking PSA to put an 8 or 9 on a card without being able to examine the naked card in hand, and then be financially responsible for the grade they give. If PSA or SGC isn't sure, they won't cross it. If you then pop it out and allow them to see everything they need to see that goes into grading cards then maybe it will cross just fine.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "... If you then pop it out and allow them to see everything they need to see that goes into grading cards then maybe it will cross just fine. .."

    ///////////////////////////

    Yup.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,261 ✭✭✭✭
    KBcards,
    Crossing a 3 grade Cracker Jack over is a little different than crossing an 8 or 9. High grade Cracker Jacks are challenging to grade. You're asking PSA to put an 8 or 9 on a card without being able to examine the naked card in hand, and then be financially responsible for the grade they give. If PSA or SGC isn't sure, they won't cross it. If you then pop it out and allow them to see everything they need to see that goes into grading cards then maybe it will cross just fine.


    I hear what you're saying. But what you really are saying is that they can not perform this service. You state they can not render a proper opinion without the card in hand--this is my point exactly...it's not a legitimate service. Everyone has to remember; they advertise that they have this service yet almost nothing seems to cross over.

    Why can't PSA just be honest with this. If they are holding a $2000 card that looks fine but they are just not sure; why not just say that and at least refund the grading fee. Generally high grade centered SGC cards are on par with their PSA counterparts in grades 7 & 8.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "...But what you really are saying is that they can not perform this service. You state they cannot render a proper opinion without the card in hand--this is my point exactly...it's not a legitimate service...."

    //////////////////////////////////////

    Crossover Service (Cards)

    Cards graded by other third-party firms may be submitted in their holders for PSA grading. This service is available under all service levels. PSA will evaluate the card inside the current holder. If PSA deems the card worthy to cross over into the Customer’s specified minimum grade, the card will be removed from its holder and placed into a PSA holder. Customers using the Crossover Service must provide a minimum grade on the submission form.If you are willing to accept any PSA opinion, even if the result is evidence of trimming, questionable authenticity, etc., then write “Any” in the column. It may result in the card being returned unholdered. If you are willing to accept any PSA grade, then put “1” in the minimum grade column.


    .............

    The service is legit, but not well understood by most folks.

    The "confusion" might be fixed with a lingo change:


    Current lingo:

    "...If PSA deems the card worthy to cross over into the..."


    Better lingo

    "...If PSA is able to deem the card worthy to cross over into the..."


    Obviously, the need to have the "ability" is implied in the current lingo.
    But, it seems, many folks are not picking up on that implied requirement.

    ......................

    The fee is for the grader to make a good-faith effort to determine whether
    or not he can "deem" the card worthy to cross over.

    The limitations on the effort are pretty obvious. It's hard to tell for sure what's
    going on with a card by looking at it through plastic.

    Refunding fees on "failed" cards would be a nonstarter; and, it would not be
    fair to the grader.


    .........................................................

    Folks with expensive cards in SGC holders - if they have confidence in SGC -
    should not have too much hesitation in cracking them out before they send
    them to PSA.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • KbKardsKbKards Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭
    It will take a lot more time to grade a card in a holder than it will to grade the card in hand. Sometimes everything will look fine. If you see something odd that requires a closer look then you can't do it with the card in the holder. The submitter made the process more difficult because he wanted a guaranty that his grade would not drop. The submitter didn't get his grade but he did receive the guaranty he paid for when requiring it to cross the same grade or higher.

    The more confidence you have with the grade of your card the more likely you are to pop it out before sending it in. You don't want the fact that SGC graded it a 7 to influence it getting the 8 you think it deserves. You also have to be confident in your ability to remove the card without damaging it. So if you send the slab in to cross at any grade, it's then PSA's job to remove it and then they'll grade it like any other raw card. There are no guaranties any more. It could go up, down, or stay the same.
  • msohnmsohn Posts: 61 ✭
    Thank you everyone for your feedback. I think that I am going to resubmit the cards and put "1" as the minimum crossover grade. These cards all appear to be well-deserving of the equivalent of PSA grade, at least to my eye . . . I at least have the ability to compare them side by side to other cards in PSA 8 holders.

    It is still a risk, but I would rather do that because I don't myself in cracking these out of slabs.
  • msohnmsohn Posts: 61 ✭
    Thank you everyone for your feedback. I think that I am going to resubmit the cards and put "1" as the minimum crossover grade. These cards all appear to be well-deserving of the equivalent of PSA grade, at least to my eye . . . I at least have the ability to compare them side by side to other cards in PSA 8 holders.

    It is still a risk, but I would rather do that because I don't myself in cracking these out of slabs.
  • MorgothMorgoth Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭
    I wouldnt put a 1, I would just go maybe 1 grade lower than they already are if you want them in a holder.
    Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
  • fandangofandango Posts: 2,622 ✭
    MSohn,

    Only success i have had with crossovers is this : ASK FOR 1 GRADE LOWER and you will get it, and sometimes you will get equal...

    PSA has tougher standards...for instance SGC doesnt really penalized for stray markings (pencil pen crayon) or for Pin holes as PSA does...

    SGC may have a better understanding of Old Judge Cards, but that doesnt mean they are TOUGHER GRADERS....

    By being difficult with crossovers, PSA keeps their reputation as a stringent grader..it IS very hard to see a card through a scracthed case (which many SGC slabs are)....


    Otherwise, just crack and resumbit and others have suggested.....

    Good luck....PS that is why i collect 1914 Cracker Jacks, the grade almost doesnt matter HA!
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