I would like some advice on large cents.

BillyKingsley

As I was walking around the tables at CoinFest, I saw quite a large selection of large cents, some dealers had more of them then anything else, or so it seemed.

But...As I was looking them over, I realize that I don't really know what a large cent "should" look like.

Obviously copper coins that old are more then likely going to be brown, but I did not feel comfortable enough with any of them to add them to my collection. Some of them seemed to shine, but I don't know if it was from luster or something else; can you even have any luster on a coin that had the coloration of dark chocolate? I really don't know.

So here is what I am asking: Can I please see pictures of large cents, in various grades? Can I also see pictures of "problem coins"? Coins that have been cleaned, or otherwise damaged? I might have missed out on some incredible coins for my collection, or I might have paid too much for a damaged coin...if I had purchased any, that is!

I would like to be more educated on the subject so I am putting my request out to the experts here on the forum...thanks!

(I will add, I have only one large cent, it's almost solidly black, and it's damaged. I am not sure how that occured as the surface is not scratched or impaired, but the coin clearly was under a lot of pressure as it's dented, I guess would be the best term. Instead of being relativly smooth it's got a convex/concave thing going on. I pulled it out of a $5 dollar bin on my first ever coin shop visit last year, and got it because of the age more then anything else-it's an 1852)

savoyspecial

>>can you even have any luster on a coin that had the coloration of dark chocolate? I really don't know.>>


yes a BN coin can be quite lustrous........some of my favorite coins are chocolate colored large cents rich with luster (i actually prefer them to RD even though the price guides favor red and red/brown)

CoinRaritiesOnline

Those are some good questions. Teaching what is "right" and not right" about large cents and colonial coins is best done with lots of coppers to look at. I suggest joining Early American Coppers (their next convention is in Annapolis, MD next spring) and/or C4 (their annual convention is next month, in Boston) and looking over exhibits, specialty dealer cases, and auction lots.

To learn online, I suggest you view the images in Goldberg's recent auction sales of the Dan Holmes and Ted Naftzger collections. The photos are quite good, the descriptions are superb, and the EAC-style grading is quite conservative. Here is a link:

Goldberg's September 2009 Auction of Dan Holmes and Ted Naftzger's Large Cents

lkeigwin

I think you'll find these old copper coins can have a lot of different appearances. One of the things about copper I like.

Here's a Braided Hair large cent, 64RB PCGS.
Lance.

Meltdown

Great thread questions Billy squirell.
I will be watching this one and see if I can learn a little something myself.

rsdoug81

Here is my only large cent that I have a photo of. It's a 1794 Liberty Cap cent. It's an S-61 variety that I picked up at a local coin/pawn shop for $400. You'll note that the surfaces are a bit rough due to some environmental damage, and this coin wouldn't grade at any third party service; however, the details are decent, and the reverse is particularly strong for a coin at this grade level. In spite of its surface problems, it's one of my favorite coins that I own.

shorecoll

Check out earlycents.com (Chris McCawley) and earlycoppers.com (Tom Reynolds). These are two of the major EAC dealers and they usually have a wide variety of dates, types and grades.

Walkerguy21D

The Heritage archives have thousands of large cent pics, including problem pieces (net graded, or genuine, etc.).
Good luck with this noble series - I love them!

RTS

MikeInFL

<< <i>But...As I was looking them over, I realize that I don't really know what a large cent "should" look like. >>



I think that if you ask 10 collectors what a large cent "should" look like, you'll get 10 different answers.

Personally, I look to unmolested 100% copper Lincoln cents for the different "looks" of natural copper, and go with what appeals to me.

Have fun...Mike

TheRegulator

Billy-

I really enjoy reading your posts, and this one is no exception. Although I no longer really chase after large cents, I thought I would chime in...

Chances are most of the above posted coins are gonna cost more than you are looking to spend. As CRO said, it helps to see a lot of copper. Even a site like eBay can be quite useful. Whenever I search eBay for large cents, I usually enter a search like"cent 1817" where you can vary the year of interest. Most of what you see on eBay will be pretty junky. Early coppers tend to suffer from lots of problems- inflicted both contemporarily and by collectors. Develop a feel for what you like in terms of color and surfaces and which problems are acceptable to you and which are unacceptable. For example, I can't stand cleanings or rim bruises but do not mind light porosity or granularity. Some people love glossy chocolate brown, but not me- give me a smooth deep tan or reddish brown.

High-grade mint-state pieces are great, but low-grade, problem-free pieces that served their function are pretty fascinating, in my book. They are also hard to find. Old, low-grade large cents should look old. If they are glossy, they've probably been rubbed up to get rid of the grime. Give me a smooth, grimy large cent over a glossy one any day.

Here's a nice 1837 I picked up off eBay last summer. Although not low-grade or low-priced (in my book) it represents a look I like...



Best of luck in your searches!


(And here's a squirrel pic I had saved off the web...)

pakasmom

RTS...

1798CentCollector

CROs suggestion is right on. Check out the Goldberg website auction archives for the most recent Dan Holmes Sale of early date cents and the Naftzger Naftzger Collection of late date cents. You should also persue some of the earlier catalogs on the site, such as the February 09 Long Beach sale featuring the Naftzger middle dates and March Wells collection of early dates. The September 08 pre-long beach sale of the Naftzger early dates and other coppers is also a valuable reference tool. The February 08 Pre-Long Beach Sale featuring the Tom Wolf collection has a great selection of mostly lower grade cents.There's enough here to allow you to view early copper, get a great idea of color, condition, grading, etc. The coins are for the most poart in the raw and extremely well photographed. You'll get the best perspective from viewing the images of raw copper.

LoveMyLiberty

Adding to the fine suggestions made you may want to
avail yourself of the wonderful collections in the Registry,
such as:

Large Cent Type Sets

Large Cent 1793-1814

Large Cent 1793-1857

and ATS as well. You'll see all kinds, all conditions.

LoveMyLiberty

And I forgot to mention sites like these,

interesting

ditto

EAC

notwilight

Do you realize copper is a poison used in algicide? Step away from the monitor now while you still can. Consider a nice bust half or even some seated coinage. But that copper isn't good for you. --Jerry

LoveMyLiberty

leothelyon

might have missed out on some incredible coins for my collection, or I might have paid too much for a damaged coin...

Selecting the right kind of coin for the right amout of money will take years of trial and error, the reason why you were so undecisive. There is no sure-fire way of jumping in feet first and coming out smelling like a rose. In the Jefferson nickel series, this was the most common statement from veteran collectors about registry collectors selecting coins from their collections that they "didn't even pick the good coins!" Gaining the experience that is neccesary to make the right selections will take some time, alot of homework and bouncing back when you fail. But here's a tip if you're not aware of it. Many copper coins have been retoned with Deller's darkener. You must be able to recognize this on coins when buying raw coins.


Leo

thisnamztaken

One thing to look carefully for on lower grade Large Cents is verdigris (green gook) and other surface crud, corrosion, pitting, etc. Those problems abound on the low grade and even mid-grade examples.

Here's a grading set link from uscents.com for Matron Head Cents (1816-1835). Click on the individual pics. to see color comparisons under different lighting.

BBN

<< <i>Do you realize copper is a poison used in algicide? Step away from the monitor now while you still can. Consider a nice bust half or even some seated coinage. But that copper isn't good for you.. --Jerry >>

Copper is also very dealy to invertebrates in the ocean. If you have a salt water aquarium with corrals and a drop of copper is put in it look for the tank to die a painful death.

*edit* wow I had to make salt water two different words because the t w a t in salt water is banned. I can post ass and damn, but not saltw@ater. LOL

BillyKingsley

Thanks for all the replies and pictures! I am going to go through and read all the links that were posted...it may take me a while but I am going to do it all! Thank you!

rsdoug, I wonder how long your coin was in circulation? I like the look on that...even with the damage.

RTS, WOW! I've never seen that many coins from the 1700s togther before! Impressive!

Regulator, thanks!

Now I am off to read the links posted....

BBN

be sure to get some in pcgs slabs and get in the registry 1793-1857. We need more competitors

rsdoug81

<< <i>Thanks for all the replies and pictures! I am going to go through and read all the links that were posted...it may take me a while but I am going to do it all! Thank you!

rsdoug, I wonder how long your coin was in circulation? I like the look on that...even with the damage.

>>



Thanks, Billy. Decent late date and even a few middle date cents can be purchased even by someone on a budget. Personally, I love the history of early copper and save a few months before I buy anything. Early large cents can be prohibitively expensive; therefore, I look for low grade or decent looking problem coins. Personally, with my budget, I don't mind minor problems or light porosity/corrosion on my early copper. I don't intend to retire from their sale anyway, so I just enjoy the history of them. For example, I have a wreath cent that should be arriving any day now. It has environmental damage and is in a PCGS genuine holder, but for my budget, it's a great looking coin. I can't wait to get it.

leothelyon

<< <i>

<< <i>Thanks for all the replies and pictures! I am going to go through and read all the links that were posted...it may take me a while but I am going to do it all! Thank you!

rsdoug, I wonder how long your coin was in circulation? I like the look on that...even with the damage.

>>



Thanks, Billy. Decent late date and even a few middle date cents can be purchased even by someone on a budget. >>



How true! But those coins are not readily available as I found out. If you're in the AG to F+ group, those coins are being sought after by many collectors. Waited several coin shows before picking up a Fine early 1798 cent for the type set. My thanks to Tom Reynolds for being patient with me.



Leo

streeter

That "shine" you refer to costs about $5.00 for a little brown glass bottle.

Adds kind of a silicone sealer to the copper on brown coins. The older formula stuff used along with a saturated rose bush thorn has cleaned many a copper coin.

some even turned out alright.