Great Southern Coin using shills

FEC · October 10, 2009 11:29AM

Look at this and tell me this isnt a shill.

Ebay Link

Barndog · October 10, 2009 11:47AM

looks like a duck to me too

Shamika · October 10, 2009 12:01PM

shill

FEC · October 10, 2009 12:06PM

Ebay has done everything they can to make it hard to detect those anymore. GSC is too big a fish for them to take any action against probably, but I reported it anyway. That sucks because I was planning to bid on that coin and they made sure if anyone gets it they pay full retail for it.

FEC · October 10, 2009 12:27PM

Here is another of their shill accounts.

Shill #2

barbershopper · October 10, 2009 12:31PM

About 2003/4, GSC had beaucoup full red IHC on ebay.
I thought I'd put in a few bids and entered $ I would be happy with but didn't expect to win.
There were about 40 of them. I won them all!!!
Not for my bids but about half of my top bid price on them.
I was ecstactic and a week later, they listed the rest of them.
I wanted them now to complete the collection. I got them but at about full price.
I ended up 3 or 4 short but bought these from my dealers I had dealt with previously.
They were raw but had great pics and I was well satisfied with them.

I found a coin blog on the internet where they were discussing GSC.
I paid a little too much for the '08-S and they accused me of being a shill!!

I don't know how they figured that because a shill will let it go after a certain price is reached.
Neither do I know why the first 40 sold so cheap. Maybe it was because it was vacation time
for most Americans so very little competition? I'll never know but I have an IHC
album full of red coins. It is spectacular.

JT

FEC · October 10, 2009 12:35PM

<< About 2003/4, GSC had beaucoup full red IHC on ebay.
I thought I'd put in a few bids and entered $ I would be happy with but didn't expect to win.
There were about 40 of them. I won them all!!!
Not for my bids but about half of my top bid price on them.
I was ecstactic and a week later, they listed the rest of them.
I wanted them now to complete the collection. I got them but at about full price.
I ended up 3 or 4 short but bought these from my dealers I had dealt with previously.
They were raw but had great pics and I was well satisfied with them.

I found a coin blog on the internet where they were discussing GSC.
I paid a little too much for the '08-S and they accused me of being a shill!!

I don't know how they figured that because a shill will let it go after a certain price is reached.
Neither do I know why the first 40 sold so cheap. Maybe it was because it was vacation time
for most Americans so very little competition? I'll never know but I have an IHC
album full of red coins. It is spectacular.

JT >>

Peoples buying habits do not consist of bidding with only one seller of a period of weeks. That is just very unlikely and they should be investigated. Here is 3rd account. They have currently 30 bids on active auctions and every single one is with GSC Shill #3

tmcsr69 · October 10, 2009 12:42PM

Looks like they have a variety of shills, at least 3. Pure dishonesty.

fc · October 10, 2009 12:47PM

the coin is a messed with turd in my opinion. genuine holder material is my guess.

typical angled shot to cover up the problems.

MYTWOCENTS · October 10, 2009 1:27PM

I find it hard to believe GSC has a great rep. and imo would be to stupid to lose it by playing around with shills--

Dave

EDIT: you never know...

notwilight · October 10, 2009 1:35PM

<< Ebay has done everything they can to make it hard to detect those anymore. GSC is too big a fish for them to take any action against probably, but I reported it anyway. That sucks because I was planning to bid on that coin and they made sure if anyone gets it they pay full retail for it. >>

Full retail must be their best price. If you don't want to pay that then pass. --Jerry

FEC · October 10, 2009 1:37PM

I am passing. But they are cheating and essentially ripping people off by forcing them to bid against non-existent competition.

notwilight · October 10, 2009 1:50PM

<< I am passing. But they are cheating and essentially ripping people off by forcing them to bid against non-existent competition. >>

I'm not saying that I condone breaking rules and I would never use a shill, but as a buyer I just see it as another way of setting a reserve. --Jerry

DUIGUY · October 10, 2009 2:05PM

GSC = bad = any question?

JmCoins · October 10, 2009 2:20PM

Don't mean to get off on the wrong foot here being the new guy, believe me there are members that shill for each other and have probably more than one ebay account that frequent this forum right..

I have read many playful posts while lurking over the years about this.. As for the practice.. Dishonest and downright unethical..John

mr1931S · October 10, 2009 5:03PM

The best thing a buyer can do is set a maximum price they are willing to pay and stick with it. Learn how to snipe.Win the auction and send back if the coin does not measure up to expectation.

Doing these things will effectively make one immune to shilling.

I don't think ebay really cares about shilling.

soty27 · October 10, 2009 5:27PM

Heritage is actually currently in a lawsuit for this same practice. Severl ebay sellers use shill bids while I find it to be down right dishonest, like a previous poster said, place your max bid at the end and see what happens

thisnamztaken · October 10, 2009 5:31PM

I never bid on their coins because the photos always make the coin look too surrealist to be not juiced to death, and they're always raw to boot!

ponderit · October 10, 2009 8:45PM

FEC you look to be right on the money about this. There sure looks to be some shenanigans going on.

mbogoman · October 10, 2009 10:41PM

Wow! That is pretty blatant! I have bid on a couple of their coins in the past, but never won. Theya re permanently on my black list now. Do not touch!!!

sinin1 · October 10, 2009 11:15PM

just because a buyer feeks comfortable buying from one seller does not make them a shill

GSC has pics that make the coins look like BB's to me
and probably digitally enhanced

they send out emails all the time with their current listings

if you keep your coins raw, never sell and never submit - buyers will not know how bad they are doing

shorecoll · October 11, 2009 1:29AM

I am frankly

that anyone on eBay would ever use a shill,

that anyone would notice and even more

that anyone would report it. Oh, the humanity!!!

Now where's that tonque in cheek icon?

notwilight · October 11, 2009 1:35AM

<< just because a buyer feeks comfortable buying from one seller does not make them a shill

GSC has pics that make the coins look like BB's to me
and probably digitally enhanced

they send out emails all the time with their current listings

if you keep your coins raw, never sell and never submit - buyers will not know how bad they are doing >>

Actually that is a good point. I've had buyers that found me and never buy from anyone else now. Of course they no longer go through ebay. --Jerry

timcoin · October 11, 2009 2:54AM

<< 

Peoples buying habits do not consist of bidding with only one seller of a period of weeks. That is just very unlikely and they should be investigated. Here is 3rd account. They have currently 30 bids on active auctions and every single one is with GSC Shill #3 >>

I disagree. There are a lot of bored people out there, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the bidder mentioned above went through all of GSC's listing, put in "low" bids hoping to get "lucky." There were eight people who put in really low bids on the lot you posted, all looking for a bargain. I don't see why a bidder wouldn't target one seller. Considering the number of "crazies" in the world, and the number of auction listings they have, I'd say their feedback is pretty darn impressive. I would buy from them, but then again, I'm not looking to try and buy something worth $180 for twenty-four bucks.

wondercoin · October 11, 2009 3:34AM

"I'm not saying that I condone breaking rules and I would never use a shill, but as a buyer I just see it as another way of setting a reserve. --Jerry"

Your recent open bid ebay sales of top pop PCGS coins for as little as $3/coin, certainly proves that! Honesty will pay off over time.
Wondercoin

relicsncoins · October 11, 2009 4:40AM

<< The best thing a buyer can do is set a maximum price they are willing to pay and stick with it. Learn how to snipe.Win the auction and send back if the coin does not measure up to expectation.

Doing these things will effectively make one immune to shilling.

I don't think ebay really cares about shilling. >>

The problem with this attitude is that, yes you will not pay more than your maximum amount you are willing to pay, but some of us like to sometimes get coins for less than the maximum amount we are willing to pay.

notwilight · October 11, 2009 5:05AM

<< 

<< The best thing a buyer can do is set a maximum price they are willing to pay and stick with it. Learn how to snipe.Win the auction and send back if the coin does not measure up to expectation.

Doing these things will effectively make one immune to shilling.

I don't think ebay really cares about shilling. >>

The problem with this attitude is that, yes you will not pay more than your maximum amount you are willing to pay, but some of us like to sometimes get coins for less than the maximum amount we are willing to pay. >>

AKA. A rip. We sellers get tired of this. In fact, we can't stay in business if it keeps happening. I use BIN. Some sellers use reserves (I think ebay charges too much) and others use shills. Ebay auctions are becoming less and less effective at obtaining a fair market price on open auctions EXCEPT on new or hot items that have a lot of lookers. There is just too much stuff for everything to sell at market price, thus the need to switch from open auction to BIN when the item is no longer hot.

So ebay is becoming less and less a place to go buy something under wholesale bid. I know those of you who have gotten those rips over the years will miss this but expect to pay a more fair price in the future.

--Jerry

relicsncoins · October 11, 2009 5:11AM

<< 

<< 

<< The best thing a buyer can do is set a maximum price they are willing to pay and stick with it. Learn how to snipe.Win the auction and send back if the coin does not measure up to expectation.

Doing these things will effectively make one immune to shilling.

I don't think ebay really cares about shilling. >>

The problem with this attitude is that, yes you will not pay more than your maximum amount you are willing to pay, but some of us like to sometimes get coins for less than the maximum amount we are willing to pay. >>

AKA. A rip. We sellers get tired of this. In fact, we can't stay in business if it keeps happening. I use BIN. Some sellers use reserves (I think ebay charges too much) and others use shills. Ebay auctions are becoming less and less effective at obtaining a fair market price on open auctions EXCEPT on new or hot items that have a lot of lookers. There is just too much stuff for everything to sell at market price, thus the need to switch from open auction to BIN when the item is no longer hot.

So ebay is becoming less and less a place to go buy something under wholesale bid. I know those of you who have gotten those rips over the years will miss this but expect to pay a more fair price in the future.

--Jerry >>

Who said anything about a rip? I consider a rip when you get a coin for much less than it's market value. Let's say there is coin with a book value of $100 and I put a max bid of $100, and I win the coin for $87. I would hardly consider that a rip.

ajia · October 11, 2009 5:19AM

AKA. A rip. We sellers get tired of this. In fact, we can't stay in business if it keeps happening. I use BIN. Some sellers use reserves (I think ebay charges too much) and others use shills. Ebay auctions are becoming less and less effective at obtaining a fair market price on open auctions EXCEPT on new or hot items that have a lot of lookers. There is just too much stuff for everything to sell at market price, thus the need to switch from open auction to BIN when the item is no longer hot. So ebay is becoming less and less a place to go buy something under wholesale bid. I know those of you who have gotten those rips over the years will miss this but expect to pay a more fair price in the future.

I don't understand this mentality.

Sometimes things do fall through the gaps & someone gets a "RIP", but who's to say what "...obtaining a fair market value...." than the public?
The market is going down, has been for at least a year, probably more. Market values have & will continue to go down. Deal with it as you will.
IMO, BIN are not selling unless the price is inline with what the recent sold prices are, for the most part. Sometimes someone is willing to pay a bit more just to avoid the hassle, or has been outbid a few times for something he really wants.

Obviously seller were never complaining when the market was hot & coins were selling for more than "market value".

FEC · October 14, 2009 11:37AM

I complained to ebay and sent a detailed letter to them about GSC's shill bidding. I got an email saying it has been investigatated and appropriate action taken although it didnst specify what that action was.

Their account is still active, but they are no longer a powerseller. I guess that is all the punishment they get.

Moldnut · October 14, 2009 11:46AM

It looks like djf-coins does the same thing the last day of bidding with a "PRIVATE" bidder. What do you guys think?

Connecticoin · October 14, 2009 11:46AM

There is a very high probability that Proof half was a hairlined dog. GSC buys problems coins from shows and peddles them on ebay to newbies -- they have a generous return policy so that those who know how to grade or are smart enough to know they got screwed will not complain. There are better sellers out there -- slogging through this sellers listings, in general, is a waste of time.

thecherrypicker · October 23, 2009 8:30AM

I'm just curious how you are basing your claims about GSC and what proof you have of this. I've been a long time buyer of their coins and a life long collector. I have always been very pleased with the prices I've been able to win both raw and certified coins at based on the grade.

The images they have of the raw coins always reflect the coin i receive in hand. in fact, it doesn't take much searching on ebay to see that they have the best images that clearly represent the coin. For further verification though i do send the coins in to be certified and have never been disappointed with the results. I'm just curious what evidence you have of "shill bidding" because that is quite the accusation and as of customer of theirs i'd like to know if its backed with validation or you're just a competitor trying to hurt their rep.

STONE · October 23, 2009 8:34AM

<< it doesn't take much searching on ebay to see that they have the best images that clearly represent the coin >>

Um, say again!

You may need to look around on eBay some more!!!!!

illini420 · October 23, 2009 8:34AM

this isn't the first thread with criticism of GSC's business practices. did you click on the links in the thread above, seems like pretty decent evidence????

LindeDad · October 23, 2009 8:36AM

Interesting first post.

Edit to put it up for you Ziggy .........

ziggy29 · October 23, 2009 8:40AM

Need the popcorn icon? It's Friday...

Silverstate · October 23, 2009 9:06AM

<< Look at this and tell me this isnt a shill.

Ebay Link >>

OK. To be the nay sayer here.....

This person bid $ 753.24 max bid

Item sold for $ 1677.99 ???

Explain to me the shill part of this.
Yes, I see that on that detail he has ONLY bid on the one persons' stuff.
BUT...If I wanted to not bid for 30 days and came back to Jerry's good deals and only bid on his, then I would look like a shill as well.

Yes, Don't be too harsh. I can see that the odds are stacked against this bidder......
Just enjoying the thread!

Assuming he was a shill bid. He really did nothing for or against the auction.
It like shill bidding on Gold Buffalos at $ 200 each.
You can bid all day long and not get anything for your time!

Funny..I have had a few "Bottom Feeders" (Jerry, knows them too!) that bid on all of your 99c items and hope that someone forgets to bid!
hhahahaha....If you look at these guys bidding history, it probably looks similar!

Res · October 23, 2009 9:10AM

The d***o bidder on that same auction seems much more shilly to me.

Silverstate · October 23, 2009 9:18AM

Maybe the winner was shill and they had to pay the fees!

The winning bid was $ 1677.99

but was placed above the guy that has been labeled the shill.

So, his bid did all of the auto bidding up to the close of the auction.

The real question is that coin BACK for sale?

FEC · October 23, 2009 9:45AM

That coin was relisted.

thecherrypicker · October 23, 2009 9:45AM

thanks for the "interesting first post comment"...I've read this site for a while now but felt like posting since I often buy online.

Forgive me but your evidence of 'shill' bidding is still lacking. The buyers you note have a very high percentage of bid activity with GSC and some only have 1 or 2 bids. Point being, when i first started buying coins through ebay i bought from multiple buyers and had various negative experiences but when dealing with GSC it was the opposite so I stuck with them. Now I would say that over 95% of the coins I buy online come from GSC. Many times I'm traveling or in and out of the office so I dont get to actively pursue certain coins like I'd like and the best I can do is get one or two bids in at a time. Sometimes i will do a max reserve bid and let it ride. With that said, you might look at my account and think I'm some how a shill bidder when I've just turned into a loyal customer and bid on the coins I like whether that means 1 bid to take a stab at it or 10 back and forth bids when I have the time. I'm sorry but it really just sounds like you're bitter competitors who aren't even close to the same class as GSC and dont have the type of loyal customers such as myself. At best its pure speculation and a humdrum attempt at that. I'm sorry but these guys have provided me with the best service and I've got coins to prove it.

Fairlaneman · October 23, 2009 9:52AM

"I've got coins to prove it."

Lets see them. From your purchase, link, and then in plastic. I think you said many have made it through PCGS.

I have no bone in this shill deal. I just want to see the coins.

Ken

Silverstate · October 23, 2009 9:54AM

<< That coin was relisted. >>

Just makes you want to..............

yellowkid · October 23, 2009 9:57AM

My bs alert system is sounding......

BlindedByEgo · October 23, 2009 10:10AM

<< thanks for the "interesting first post comment"...I've read this site for a while now but felt like posting since I often buy online.

Forgive me but your evidence of 'shill' bidding is still lacking. The buyers you note have a very high percentage of bid activity with GSC and some only have 1 or 2 bids. Point being, when i first started buying coins through ebay i bought from multiple buyers and had various negative experiences but when dealing with GSC it was the opposite so I stuck with them. Now I would say that over 95% of the coins I buy online come from GSC. Many times I'm traveling or in and out of the office so I dont get to actively pursue certain coins like I'd like and the best I can do is get one or two bids in at a time. Sometimes i will do a max reserve bid and let it ride. With that said, you might look at my account and think I'm some how a shill bidder when I've just turned into a loyal customer and bid on the coins I like whether that means 1 bid to take a stab at it or 10 back and forth bids when I have the time. I'm sorry but it really just sounds like you're bitter competitors who aren't even close to the same class as GSC and dont have the type of loyal customers such as myself. At best its pure speculation and a humdrum attempt at that. I'm sorry but these guys have provided me with the best service and I've got coins to prove it. >>

GSC Alt? Inquiring minds want to know...

Stew · October 23, 2009 10:46AM

I am not saying that it is not a shill account but something weird I noticed about my ebay account (Lakewood293) I was looking at it one day
and had noticed that all of my bidding for quite a period of time was with one seller (Hocey) who owns a coin shop here in town. I found myself bidding on a lot of his stuff because I could go a few dollars higher than every one else due to the fact that I could just drive across town and pick it up. Avoiding the shipping fees and allowing me to go to the coin shop more often without grief from the better half.

But it looked like to me when I looked at my account that it looked like I would be a shill bidder for the coin shop
Just an observation

Stew

MikeInFL · October 23, 2009 10:46AM

This thread has potential.

MikeInFL · October 23, 2009 10:47AM

p.s. FEC, you hardly have the evidence to prove your assertion, and if I were you I would be careful from drawing conclusions without knowing the facts -- even if you are right.

crazyhounddog · October 23, 2009 11:00AM

After taking thousands of images of coins , let me say this: This 1866 seated liberty half dollar you see in this listing has the light bouncing straight off the highly reflective surface and hides all of the scratches and or blemishes this coin may have. I have always been amazed at the activity level of this seller and price they get for their RAW coins and the images that are deceiving.

illini420 · October 23, 2009 1:26PM

I have a friend submitting a coin through PCGS right now that was purchased from GSC on eBay as a coin that grades "fine." I've seen it in hand and think it'll be a G-06, maybe a VG-08 if it grades at all. Has some hairlines on it that may put it into a genuine holder. Should have the results back in a few weeks, will try to remember to update this thread and provide pics if the owner of the coin is ok with it.

Great Southern Coin using shills

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