1980 Topps Basketball Error - Recently Graded w/ Scan

Littletweed

So I had read on the B/S/T forum a few months ago that PSA doesn't recognize this error, but just for fun I sent it in. I've been collecting this set for many years and never knew about this error. Now I have a graded one for my collection. There is another error card (same error) but it's the Phegley/Silas/Tyler card; most of the ones I have are o/c. Anyways, I thought I'd share my fun:
Edited to clarify the error - error card has his name as "Jams Silas"

lsutigers1973

Did you ever get an answer why PSA wouldn't recognize the error on the flip?

VitoCo1972

Is the error that color of the James Silas' name?

Karb

Weird they don't note it as Jams version or something

jimrad

It must be jelly cause jam don't shake like that

Littletweed

<< <i>Did you ever get an answer why PSA wouldn't recognize the error on the flip? >>



Here is the reply from cards651 when I questioned if PSA would label it as an error:

Guys - Thanks for all your help on this (and thanks for fixing the scan as well). I had asked PSA about grading of this error/variation card (I did not actually send them the scan) a while ago and they said that they would not grade it. I think some sets are littered with error cards which may be the reason they do not grade them. On the other hand, there are many sets with variations that are graded. I sort of hope that there is a reasonable critical mass of these cards out there so that PSA will eventually grade it. Now I know that there are a few others out there. That's about all I have. For now, I simply plan to hang on to them and see what happens. Thanks again for all of the help. - Kevin M.

The B/S/T thread that I'm talking about is here

Littletweed

<< <i>Is the error that color of the James Silas' name? >>



The error card has his name spelled as "Jams" then it was corrected to James. The color did change, but the corrected version in black is the only name in the set where the name is black.

VitoCo1972

<< <i>

<< <i>Is the error that color of the James Silas' name? >>



The error card has his name spelled as "Jams" then it was corrected to James. The color did change, but the corrected version in black is the only name in the set where the name is black. >>



HA, I totally missed that! I'm dumb.

jacksoncoupage

Thanks for posting a scan.

This is one of those variations listed in the Gilkeson guide that I had yet to visually confirm. Pretty cool!

CDsNuts

It's really laziness and nothing else. This is infinitely more of an error/variation than 1980 Topps baseball Yellow name, the 1981 Fleer finger "errors", and the various forms of 1989 Fleer Randy Johnson Marlboro ad obscured cards.

metsfan

Interesting card. What the heck does 347 stand for? The other 2 cards have the players position. I know sometimes they say he plays the "3", but only 5 players are on each team at once.

Littletweed

<< <i>Interesting card. What the heck does 347 stand for? The other 2 cards have the players position. I know sometimes they say he plays the "3", but only 5 players are on each team at once. >>



Because his card (Silas) is a "leader" card, in this case, assist leader, it's the total of his assists (the leader of his team) from the last year.

Allen

<< <i>Interesting card. What the heck does 347 stand for? The other 2 cards have the players position. I know sometimes they say he plays the "3", but only 5 players are on each team at once. >>



I am guessing how many assists he had to lead?

Allen

<< <i>It's really laziness and nothing else. This is infinitely more of an error/variation than 1980 Topps baseball Yellow name, the 1981 Fleer finger "errors", and the various forms of 1989 Fleer Randy Johnson Marlboro ad obscured cards. >>



Bingo.

Littletweed

<< <i>

<< <i>It's really laziness and nothing else. This is infinitely more of an error/variation than 1980 Topps baseball Yellow name, the 1981 Fleer finger "errors", and the various forms of 1989 Fleer Randy Johnson Marlboro ad obscured cards. >>



Bingo. >>



I'm not sure why PSA doesn't label it as an error, but I thought I'd at least try sending in both cards, error & correct, on the submission. I even put on the sub. form "error - Jams" & "correct - James" but it didn't work. Maybe one day they will acknowledge it.

metsfan

That makes sense. Thanks.

SDSportsFan

It seems to me that PSA should recognize the variation on the flip.

The fact that it's an "error", really is immaterial, at least to me. There are thousands of error cards that aren't anything special, since they were never corrected. What makes this card special, to where it should be recognized, is that it was purposefully corrected. Since there are two versions of the card, each version should be recognized.

It's just like any other variation card, like the 1935 Diamond Star Earnie/Ernie Lombardi and Hank Greenburg/Greenberg cards, 1974 Topps Washington NL/San Diego cards, 1979 Topps Bump Wills Toronto/Texas card, 1982 Fleer John Littlefield backwards/corrected picture, 1962 Topps green/normal background, et al.....

Come on PSA, recognize the variation on the flips


Steve

richtree

once again PSA does not want to cater to the customer by not detailing many errors and variations that are know in the industry.

Their dictatorship type of law makes them lose buisness and seem like they lack the same passion that many collectors have.

shame, shame.

mexisar

If Beckett would list the error/correct version probably they would.

vladguerrero

IF, we are sure there was no player names Jams Silas then PSA should list the error.

burke23

Personally I just think they are some sharp 8's.

jacksoncoupage

<< <i>once again PSA does not want to cater to the customer by not detailing many errors and variations that are know in the industry.

Their dictatorship type of law makes them lose buisness and seem like they lack the same passion that many collectors have.

shame, shame. >>



Without a doubt, this card should be designated as an error in the guides. It's been cataloged in the Dick Gilkeson ERROR and VARIATION guides since 1990.

From my experience, it seems that the powers that be, as far as adding new error/variation info for modern (or post 1970) cards, carry the early-90's mentality that "errors are a fad" when it comes to acknowledging them in their guides or in this case, in the slabs.

I just had three very well-known (and cataloged) error cards get labeled as their "correct" counterparts, likely due to ignorance or outright laziness.

But, I'd like to add that just like the multitude of 1989 Fleer Bill Ripken variations, the 1989 Fleer Randy Johnson variations are truly (by the hobby definition) legit variations that should be cataloged as well. Those Randy Johnson cards were deliberate attempts by Fleer's editors/proofers to omit the sign. No different that going "Sh**, Littlefield pitches right-handed, not lefty!" or "Uh-oh, Dale's jersey isn't supposed to be backwards!".

Also...

If the very same people in charge of determining what variations get recognized and what don't, list a proven "printing flaw" such as the 1990 Topps Frank Thomas NNOF (simply because it's the RC of a popular player), feel that is deserving of it's "official" status, then all continuous-printing flaw variations should be lent the same credulity. (See the 1984 Topps Braves/Dale Murphy TL, 1986 Topps Indians TL, 1982 Topps Bob Sykes for examples of this.)

The 1950's through 1970's are full of fully recognized "printing flaw" cards that are only seen as "true errors" because they were cataloged/written about/discussed during the boom of the hobby which was profiting majorly from collectors of those decades. Conversly, this is why we have cards listed in the guides that don't exist ( 1988 Fleer Garth Iorg COR) and have been all but proven to not exist, STILL listed in price guides!

At the end of the day, yeah, it is laziness as well as a complacent acceptance of an outdated and almost 20 year notion (that all "printing flaws are junk"). Also, there's no way that PSA couldn't benefit by accurately labeling variations for what they are, especially for master set/registry collectors.

CDsNuts

The hilarious thing is that if this were brought to Joe Orlando's attention he would tell the graders to acknowledge the error immediately. The more errors and variations, the more that particular card will get graded. How many 89 Fleer Bill Ripken cards get graded if there aren't a dozen variations? How many extra 82 Topps blackless 7s and 8s have been graded that never would've seen a slab?

When are PSA employees going to realize it's worth it to do the legwork and figure out each and every one of these errors and variations. You know how much money they're leaving on the table by not recognizing the different 88-91 Donruss factory vs wax designs and reversed backs? Or the Topps 80s and 90s cards with different numbers of asterix on the back?

Littletweed

I'm bumping this thread to show an addition to my 1980-81 Topps collection

The color key proof error from the Topps Vault:

richtree

awesome...once again., anyone with a "Jams" version PM me so we can trade !!


thank

cards651

Guys - I just received this e-mail today from PSA. Amazing. Trying to put this nicely but PSA seems to be more of a 'follower' than a 'leader' based on this person's response. - Kevin M.

Kevin,

These errors/varieties are not listed in any of the catalogs including the new ones so unfortunately we will not recognize them.


Kristie Gallant

PSA, PSA/DNA

800-325-1121 ext 302