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This is the stupidest no-grade I've ever seen
GoldenEyeNumismatics
Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
french coins I just got grades back on:
1 1 15594364 172558 1793-AA Sol FRANCE Genuine (82 - Filed Rims)
2 1 15594365 413197 L'AN5-A 2 Dec FRANCE MS62BN
the 1793-AA Sol is a blazing MS66/7, knock your socks off gem, full blown monster, absolutely stunning piece. It's also hoard coin. They are struck from bronze. I've examined the piece thoroughly--there is nothing to keep it from grading.
So to get a no-grade for "filed rims" on a coin that essentially came straight out of a mint barrel, minted from non-precious metal (which essentially eliminates the only motive for filing a coin), is absolutely ridiculous.
I understand this is all part of the grading game. I'm not angry at PCGS, but I certainly find this quite funny.
Editted to add: the coin was previously PCGS MS64, but was covered with PVC film and grit. With the PVC and other gook removed, the full brilliance came out.
1 1 15594364 172558 1793-AA Sol FRANCE Genuine (82 - Filed Rims)
2 1 15594365 413197 L'AN5-A 2 Dec FRANCE MS62BN
the 1793-AA Sol is a blazing MS66/7, knock your socks off gem, full blown monster, absolutely stunning piece. It's also hoard coin. They are struck from bronze. I've examined the piece thoroughly--there is nothing to keep it from grading.
So to get a no-grade for "filed rims" on a coin that essentially came straight out of a mint barrel, minted from non-precious metal (which essentially eliminates the only motive for filing a coin), is absolutely ridiculous.
I understand this is all part of the grading game. I'm not angry at PCGS, but I certainly find this quite funny.
Editted to add: the coin was previously PCGS MS64, but was covered with PVC film and grit. With the PVC and other gook removed, the full brilliance came out.
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Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
one does not know what they are doing?
<< <i>so you are basically saying a professional grader or perhaps more then
one does not know what they are doing? >>
In this case (Revolution-era French coppers), that is what I'm saying.
Point out the "altered surfaces on these two"
<< <i>I think if you are going to post this sort of thing you really should show a photo of the rim when you get it back. >>
I'll go one further....
I think if someone wants to post something like this, they WAIT until they get it back, then post, and include photos with the original post
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>so you are basically saying a professional grader or perhaps more then
one does not know what they are doing? >>
Didn't you notice the thread a few weeks ago... the one with the OBVIOUSLY tooled seated coin... that somehow "got past more than one professional grader" and ended up in a VF20 holder... sure... PCGS stepped up and offered to "make it right"... but the mistake WAS made... kaka occurs... really...
<< <i>Was this once mounted into a bezel? >>
No. But it had been covered with PVC film and certified by PCGS at MS64. With the PVC stripped, the full brilliance came out.
You got an opinion.
Case closed.
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send it in again.
<< <i>the answer is obvious...
send it in again. >>
That's what I'll be doing
<< <i>
<< <i>so you are basically saying a professional grader or perhaps more then
one does not know what they are doing? >>
Didn't you notice the thread a few weeks ago... the one with the OBVIOUSLY tooled seated coin... that somehow "got past more than one professional grader" and ended up in a VF20 holder... sure... PCGS stepped up and offered to "make it right"... but the mistake WAS made... kaka occurs... really... >>
yes i remember it. every three months this board digs up another
reminder of that type of issue being slabbed.
this looks to be the reverse type of case of a high grade base metal
coin getting BB for filed rims. the op is known to have a good eye
for coins so i tend to trust his judgment.
i would be upset if i paid good money to get it graded and could not locate the problem after being told it had filed rims.
<< <i>You paid for an opinion.
You got an opinion.
Case closed. >>
lol. it was slabbed before, so states the OP. case wide open.
<< <i>
<< <i>You paid for an opinion.
You got an opinion.
Case closed. >>
lol. it was slabbed before, so states the OP. case wide open. >>
Nope. TPGs are like women, always changing their minds.
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So shall it grade once more
Assuming, of course, that the
Lords of grading, are in the mood.
Camelot
as well as the other side where I just got back a 1917-d Lincoln. Bought out of PCGS holder(came with label) a 64RD. When I got it back it was a 64 RB...which was the right call.
Win some / lose some.....(even though I might be shaking my head in wonder....)
<< <i>
Win some / lose some.....(even though I might be shaking my head in wonder....)
Quite true.
PCGS got the Two Decimes coin correct at MS62 (although I thought it had a shot at MS63). NGC missed on the Two Decimes when they graded it about 3 months ago... NGC said AU55, which left me totally scratching my head.
<< <i>
<< <i>the answer is obvious...
send it in again. >>
That's what I'll be doing
why? you paid for a service and should get it.
One day there will be a class action lawsuit and we will all get a big check. I keep hearing the talk of it from a Florida lawyer against NGC who is also a collector and has filed over a dozen class action lawsuits here. He told me he will get to it sooner or later.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Win some / lose some.....(even though I might be shaking my head in wonder....)
Quite true.
At least PCGS got the Two Decimes coin correct at MS62 (although I thought it had a shot at MS63). NGC totally botched the Two Decimes (along with a bunch of other coppers I sent in) when they graded it about 3 months ago... NGC said AU55, which left me totally scratching my head. >>
After you post the pic of rim of the 1793-AA Sol here, I think you should send it to NGC and tell us what they call it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Win some / lose some.....(even though I might be shaking my head in wonder....)
Quite true.
At least PCGS got the Two Decimes coin correct at MS62 (although I thought it had a shot at MS63). NGC totally botched the Two Decimes (along with a bunch of other coppers I sent in) when they graded it about 3 months ago... NGC said AU55, which left me totally scratching my head. >>
After you post the pic of rim of the 1793-AA Sol here, I think you should send it to NGC and tell us what they call it. >>
i would also like to see pics as i am just curious but the coin was already
slabbed once by pcgs... which makes asking for pics kind of pointless.
it was good enough once.. but now it is not. i hardly think a dipping
caused file rims eh?
there is a reason that over 90% of the six figure coins, and ALL of the seven figure world coins are in NGC plastic. PCGS is the red-headed step child of the world coin market.
<< <i>
<< <i>so you are basically saying a professional grader or perhaps more then
one does not know what they are doing? >>
In this case (Revolution-era French coppers), that is what I'm saying. >>
dood, I've heard you're like 13 years old, Ill take PCGS opinions over yours
The 1936 Half - the luster is disturbed and it should have been body bagged.
The 1835 Quarter, just doesn't look right. It's small stuff like that they will bag.
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When will your internationally recognized grading service be up and running?
It's spelled "POMPOUS"
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>
minted from non-precious metal (which essentially eliminates the only motive for filing a coin),
>>
Rims are filed on coins of all metals to remove rim nicks from an otherwise near perfect coin. When done on a lathe, it can be very deceptive. Early coins can vary a lot on rim height due to dies, strike, planchet variations, collar wear (if used), pressure from the edge lettering device for open collar coins. NGC seems to understand these variations on early world coins better than PCGS.
the coin was slabbed before by pcgs. so much speculation without
knowing this tidbit makes for some funny posts.
It makes me feel better and better about buying raw and keeping them raw.
Buy the coins, enjoy the coins.
Walk away from the fruity drink.
Every coin has "altered surfaces" - the moment the die strikes the blank planchet.
Indeed.
<< <i>there is a reason that over 90% of the six figure coins, and ALL of the seven figure world coins are in NGC plastic. PCGS is the red-headed step child of the world coin market. >>
Where have I heard this rant before?
<< <i>
<< <i>there is a reason that over 90% of the six figure coins, and ALL of the seven figure world coins are in NGC plastic. PCGS is the red-headed step child of the world coin market. >>
Where have I heard this rant before? >>
It doesn't make him wrong.
PCGS may be the king of certification when it comes to U.S. coinage, but they don't have fraction of the expertise that NGC has when it comes to non-U.S. coinage. Period.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Is it because of NGC's expertise?
Or is it because NGC is more comfortable slabbing unfamiliar coins?
However, moaning and whining are discouraged
while whimpering, is always viewed with disdain.
Camelot
<< <i>Ranting and raving are allowed on this Forum.
However, moaning and whining are discouraged
while whimpering, is always viewed with disdain.
Yes Will is young but age has nothing to do with ability and I think Will is more than qualified to accurately grade coins.
The name is LEE!
they dont have a buy back guarantee.
<< <i>ngc can take more risks giving the coin a higher grade or slabbing "problem" ish coins.
they dont have a buy back guarantee. >>
Except for the fact that it was a PCGS graded coin prior to the resubmission.
The name is LEE!
Is there a possibility that by removing the PVC & 'gook', besides the brilliance, the filing came out?
<< <i>....the coin was previously PCGS MS64, but was covered with PVC film and grit. With the PVC and other gook removed, the full brilliance came out.
Is there a possibility that by removing the PVC & 'gook', besides the brilliance, the filing came out? >>
Possibly, and one way that docs can cover up problems is with a PVC film, but I doubt it.
my MS-65 coins a MS-67 grade. I guess that they do not like
fuzzy bears.
Camelot
<< <i>I have also noticed that there seems to be more world coinage in NGC slabs. But why?
Is it because of NGC's expertise?
Or is it because NGC is more comfortable slabbing unfamiliar coins? >>
wow, that is wildly speculative and not very responsible. you're coming off sounding like a kool-aid drinking PCGS'er here IMHO.
<< <i>Using Frank's comments, it may be that the PCGS staff missed it originally and caught it on the dipped re-send. >>
I tend to agree with that. The "helping" of the coin proved to be its undoing, it seems. The original slab with the 64 grade would have been fine with me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it... Of course, none of us has seen the piece in question, either in the before- or after-cleaning state so it's hard to comment.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>Using Frank's comments, it may be that the PCGS staff missed it originally and caught it on the dipped re-send. >>
I tend to agree with that. The "helping" of the coin proved to be its undoing, it seems. The original slab with the 64 grade would have been fine with me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it... Of course, none of us has seen the piece in question, either in the before- or after-cleaning state so it's hard to comment. >>
If the coin did indeed have a layer of PVC then unfortunately it had to be fixed.......so yes it sounds like it was broke