Hand cut submission question(s).

jacksoncoupage

I recently purchased a large lot of 1990-1992 Topps Magazines with all their cards intact and I am looking to submit about 12-15 of them.

After reading the PSA guidelines on hand cut cards, I learned that, with box bottoms or post panels, what you submit must have the identifying (usually) black border surrounding the card.

Now as far as the Topps Magazine cards go, they are usually 4 to a sheet and are what I would call, "semi-perforated", they are not as well-perforated as the Sports Illustrated for Kids inserts and they often have 2mm or 3mm gaps between perforations which if torn apart, could take a chunk of the card or it's neighbor away. And there isn't any "border" to leave on the edges.

Hopefully, I can cut these and submit them like I would a box panel card but I don't wish to ruin the opportunity for a decent grade.

Has anyone submitted one of these before? Or purchased a PSA graded copy?

Example (not mine):

divecchia

jacksoncoupage...

Don't cut them with a razor knife!!! Unless something changed recently with PSA when submitting perforated cards, you need to bend the cards on the perforation back and forth as many times as it takes so that you can safely seperate the cards showing the perforated edges. If you cut them they will not get graded or may only get an Authentic grade. At least that's how it was a couple of years back when I submitted perfed cards. Box bottoms or other cards with no perforation can get razor or knife cut.

Someone please chime in if this is no longer the case...Donato

Edited because I can't spell...

daddymc

<< <i>jacksoncoupage...

Don't cut them with a razor knife!!! Unless something changed recently with PSA when submitting perforated cards, you need to bend the cards on the perforation back and forth as many times as it takes so that you can safely seperate the cards showing the perfed on the edges. If you cut them they will not get graded. At least that's how it was a couple of years back when I submitted perfed cards. Box bottoms or other cards with not perforation can get razor or knife cut.

Someone please chime in if this is no longer the case...Donato >>



That's exactly the method I used with the 2009 Topps Pitch Hit Run Promo sheets. Even so, you need to be careful not to slightly bend corners or rip a chunk out. I ruined a few sheets before I got comfortable with the method and using the proper amount of pressure in the bending process. Must of worked out though:

jacksoncoupage

<< <i>jacksoncoupage...

Don't cut them with a razor knife!!! Unless something changed recently with PSA when submitting perforated cards, you need to bend the cards on the perforation back and forth as many times as it takes so that you can safely seperate the cards showing the perfed on the edges. If you cut them they will not get graded. At least that's how it was a couple of years back when I submitted perfed cards. Box bottoms or other cards with not perforation can get razor or knife cut.

Someone please chime in if this is no longer the case...Donato >>



Wow. That's scary! They truly have the worst perforations I've ever seen. The point where the four corners meet in each panel is barely perforated at all. This is a regular problem as far as I have seen. This would almost guarantee that one of, if not two of the cards will bring a piece of another players card. I would hate to see my Nolan get torn into by Bo or Yount!

jacksoncoupage

<< <i>

<< <i>jacksoncoupage...

Don't cut them with a razor knife!!! Unless something changed recently with PSA when submitting perforated cards, you need to bend the cards on the perforation back and forth as many times as it takes so that you can safely seperate the cards showing the perfed on the edges. If you cut them they will not get graded. At least that's how it was a couple of years back when I submitted perfed cards. Box bottoms or other cards with not perforation can get razor or knife cut.

Someone please chime in if this is no longer the case...Donato >>



That's exactly the method I used with the 2009 Topps Pitch Hit Run Promo sheets. Even so, you need to be careful not to slightly bend corners or rip a chunk out. I ruined a few sheets before I got comfortable with the method and using the proper amount of pressure in the bending process. Must of worked out though:

>>



See, that card, like the SIFK cards have great perforations that allow the bending process to work. The Topps Magazine cards have tiny, spaced closely (with the exception of the almost-unperforated junction) perforations that don't look as though they'd tear apart easily.

EDIT:

I just tried taking the edges off of one of my Van Poppel/Reds (like the one pictured) sheets and because there are chunks of unperforated border, it left little pieces on the edges, plus the "cards" are paper-thin.

CDsNuts

Topps Mags are impossible. The perforations are so light that you can't tear them apart cleanly no matter what you do.

jacksoncoupage

<< <i>Topps Mags are impossible. The perforations are so light that you can't tear them apart cleanly no matter what you do. >>



After just practicing on a sheet and failing miserably, I am not willing to risk any of the star players. The cards are so thin and most of the perforations don't even punch all the way through. I'll try calling PSA and ask what recommendations they have for this.

TheHun

It seems kind of silly that cards torn by hand are rated superior than ones cut by a paper cutter or straight edge.

SDSportsFan

<< <i>It seems kind of silly that cards torn by hand are rated superior than ones cut by a paper cutter or straight edge.

>>




PSA simply feels that the cards should be separated via the method the manufacturer intended. If the cards are perforated, then the cards must be separated by hand at the perforations. If the cards are not perforated, and were meant to be cut apart (like 1975-79 Hostess), then you can use a knife, scissors, papercutter, etc. You just need to make sure to leave the card's intended border unmolested to get a high grade.

You run into problems when you use a papercutter, knife or scissors on a perforated card, since you are removing the perforations in the process. As can be seen in the Pujols card above, the perforations are supposed to remain in place after separation. If they're not there, you get a lower or no grade.

Steve

jacksoncoupage

<< <i>

<< <i>It seems kind of silly that cards torn by hand are rated superior than ones cut by a paper cutter or straight edge.

>>




PSA simply feels that the cards should be separated via the method the manufacturer intended. If the cards are perforated, then the cards must be separated by hand at the perforations. If the cards are not perforated, and were meant to be cut apart (like 1975-79 Hostess), then you can use a knife, scissors, papercutter, etc. You just need to make sure to leave the card's intended border unmolested to get a high grade.

You run into problems when you use a papercutter, knife or scissors on a perforated card, since you are removing the perforations in the process. As can be seen in the Pujols card above, the perforations are supposed to remain in place after separation. If they're not there, you get a lower or no grade.

Steve >>



But what if the cards' perforations do not go all the way through? The Topps magazine perforations are more like indentations. I spent 5 minutes bending the excess paper back and forth to be sure and it still didn't pull apart correctly.

SDSportsFan

<< <i>But what if the cards' perforations do not go all the way through? The Topps magazine perforations are more like indentations. I spent 5 minutes bending the excess paper back and forth to be sure and it still didn't pull apart correctly. >>




In that case, I'd do what you mentioned above, and call PSA for their recommendation. Clearly, Topps meant for the cards to be torn apart at the perfs. It appears though, that Topps didn't do a good job of perforating the cards in the first place. So like I said, I'd call PSA and see what they say.


Steve

jacksoncoupage

<< <i>

<< <i>But what if the cards' perforations do not go all the way through? The Topps magazine perforations are more like indentations. I spent 5 minutes bending the excess paper back and forth to be sure and it still didn't pull apart correctly. >>




In that case, I'd do what you mentioned above, and call PSA for their recommendation. Clearly, Topps meant for the cards to be torn apart at the perfs. It appears though, that Topps didn't do a good job of perforating the cards in the first place. So like I said, I'd call PSA and see what they say.


Steve >>



Thanks for the feedback. And to everyone else who's responded. I'll call PSA and see if they'll work with me on this.

jeffcbay

Have you ever seen any of these cards graded before? Maybe you can look at an existing graded card to compare the edges and look for perf marks.

I've been really looking into the perf card rules and techniques lately because I recently picked up a large collection of SI for Kids magazines, for the sole purpose of getting some of the cards graded. I've already practiced on some of the junkier cards, and I feel that I have my technique down. For those, it really doesn't take more than a front then back bend before it's ready to easily tear apart. Looking forward to more input before I tear into the cards that I want to submit. No Tiger cards unfortunately, these are from Issue 1 to about 1992.

jackstraw

I have yet to figure out why the cut lines have to be on the card for a numeric grade?
If thats the case (which it shouldn't because they were there for you to cut?????) then the
perforation should still be intact because thats were you are suppose to seperate the card.
You should cut outside the perforation. Doesn't make sense does it? Neither does having the cut lines
still on the card?

TheHun

This bring up another discrepancy -

some issues (like tobacco) were made with an attached coupon. These were intended to be separated from the card. Why then, would the intact coupon be a higher grade then a smple that has been separated as the manufactor intended ?

lawnmowerman

You can lightly score the perforations with a new razor then pull them apart by hand. Don't cut all the way through or they will deem the card trimmed and not grade it.

The scoring helps two ways. It helps with the separation of the cards and helps prevent paper loss on the surface/edge areas. Perforated cards when pulled apart can easily incur paper loss on the surface and will get an 8 every time.

clayshooter22

A rule that I use is that if the title of the card in the PSA database says "perforated" then score and tear as Matt says above.

BUT many perforated issues can be "cut" and receive grading.

For instance, last year I sent in two Puckett cards. One, the M&M's card says "perforated" in the title, 1987 M & M's K.PUCKETT PERFORATED, and so I scored and tore as indicated. The other is a perforated issue that comes in sheets; 1987 U.S. FORESTRY SERVICE SMOKEY BEAR'S TEAM 8 KIRBY PUCKETT which I "cut" and received a PSA 9 on....notice it does not say "perforated" in the title where the M&Ms cards do even though they are both "perforated" in original condition.

Mike

digicat

<< <i>PSA simply feels that the cards should be separated via the method the manufacturer intended. >>




The Topps mags actually suggest both tearing or cutting as ways to seperate the cards.

MULLINS5

just as everyone has said, don't cut waith a razor.

digicat

For my own collection, I went ahead and used a scrap-book paper cutter to slice through the perfs. The cards look a lot nicer that way.

There are a few that I'm thinking of submitting, so for those, I carefully tore them free from each other by hand. Darn ugly looking though.

jacksoncoupage

<< <i>

<< <i>PSA simply feels that the cards should be separated via the method the manufacturer intended. >>




The Topps mags actually suggest both tearing or cutting as ways to seperate the cards. >>



Yep.

I called PSA and explained the problems with the perforations and noted that the magazines do suggest removing them with scissors. They said they'd contact another dept. who'll respond on Monday about this.

EDIT:

Also, Topps did recommend cutting them before tearing them.