1959 Topps Set

HammeringHank

A buddy of mine and I are having a bit of debate on the value of ungraded cards...I began creating a 1959 Topps set years ago...I bought them as ungraded cards...at trade shows and on ebay...and through some dealers...at the end of the day...I actually paid more than what a fully graded PSA 7 set (based on PSA book) cost...when putting the set together I was looking for perfectly 50/50 cards that were at least (in my opinion) PSA 7 cards or better...

So here is the question...what do those reading this think that a set on of ungraded 1959 Topps set (all 50/50 centered) is worth as stated above...

What is it worth as a set?

What is it worth sold individually?

Thanks!

Oh...one more thing...do you think PSA pricing guide is accurate? To high? To low?

Bosox1976

Sounds like a dandy...

Am sure you'd do better breaking it up, but that is hard after putting a nice set together.

PSA 7's don't always do better than clean raw on ebay any more - so the thought of spending the $ for the same combined hammer price would be a non-starter. I guess anything 8-ish would be worth a shot, or HOFers though.

Either way you go, it sounds great and will generate interest.

HammeringHank

That buddy of mine seems to think that PSA pricing is for a graded card...so that without the plastic holder the card needs to be graded...and he use $6 as his base price...so $6 times 572 cards is...$3432.00...so he deducts that amount from the book price of a 7 and that is what he feels is the value of the set...based on his thinking the card has no value because PSA 7 non-star cards are worth $6-7 dollors from 1-500 (basially)...and $15 after that...

This just does not add up right?

KrissKriss

I think that without a doubt the .5 grading system destroyed the value of vintage PSA 7,s.

Bosox1976

<< <i>That buddy of mine seems to think that PSA pricing is for a graded card...so that without the plastic holder the card needs to be graded...and he use $6 as his base price...so $6 times 572 cards is...$3432.00...so he deducts that amount from the book price of a 7 and that is what he feels is the value of the set...based on his thinking the card has no value because PSA 7 non-star cards are worth $6-7 dollors from 1-500 (basially)...and $15 after that...

This just does not add up right? >>



Doesn't add up at all. It would be nice if the card was worth x and by slabbing it it became x+$6, but for 7's there is no +6. The difference between a dead centered raw NM card and a PSA 7 is a buck or two at most.

nam812

Here are some numbers for this thread to do with what you wish:

SMR for a complete 1959 PSA 7 set (no variations) =$14,325
Complete 1959 PSA 7 set based on the average of recorded sales (no variations) = $10,675
Complete 1959 raw set if you paid full Beckett guide for every card = $9,300

Obviously your raw set could have some sneaky 8s mixed in there (and some 6s i'd imagine), but I also would imagine that you did not pay the full Beckett guide value for each card either.

markj111

I think it's terrific to have a nice set in a binder. The cards are easy to view, and they do not take up nearly as much room as a graded set. If you're not going to sell, what difference does it make? The only reason I have my cards graded (59-71) is to protect the value for when I am gone.

bobsbbcards

PSA 7s sell for more than near mint raw cards on eBay. If someone actually has a dead-centered raw card that would grade a PSA 7, 9 times out of 10 they tout it is MINT (which it isn't). Some suckers will pay extra for a "MINT" card with the hopes that it will grade an 8 or a 9.

Here's some recent data (searching for completed auctions for 1959 topps NM -sgc -psa):

478 Bob Clemente raw advertised as NM, unsold with Buy-It-Now of $92.50 (PSA 7 VCP average $135.27)
20 Duke Snider, raw advertised as NM, unsold with Buy-It-Now of $37.50 (PSA 7 VCP average $46.01)
461 Mickey Mantle Baseball Thrills NM, sold for $26.00 (PSA 7 VCP average $88.56)
372 Jim Hegan NM, unsold at $0.99 (PSA 7 VCP average $15.29)
390 Orlando Cepeda NM+!!!, sold for $19.99 (PSA 7 VCP average $19.15) -- sucker fell for the plus sign and the three exclamation points
415 Bill Mazeroski NM!!!, unsold with $5.99 reserve (PSA 7 VCP average $13.56) -- must have been the lack of a plus sign
382 Curt Simmons NM, unsold at $0.99 (PSA 7 VCP average $5.94)
470 Stan Musial 3000th hit NM+, sold for $10.50 (PSA 7 VCP average $25.24)
20 Duke Snider NM, sold for $9.99 (PSA 7 VCP average $46.01)
147 Cubs Clubbers NM, sold for $2.25 (PSA 7 VCP average $19.34)
156 Ace Hurlers NM, sold for $0.99 (PSA 7 VCP average $12.01)
249 Bobby Adams NM+, unsold at $1.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $8.49)
311 Norm Zauchin NM+, unsold at $2.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $7.19)
101 Alex Kellner NM+, sold for $3.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $9.53)
369 Dick Tomanek NM+, unsold at $2.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $7.45)
151 Bob Malkmus NM+, sold for $1.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $7.47)
419 Braves Team NM, sold for $5.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $11.20)
65 Frank Torre NM, unsold at $2.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $9.11)
485 Ryne Duren NM+, unsold at $4.00 (PSA 7 VCP average $12.56)
85 Harry Anderson NM+ Sharp 50/50, unsold at $0.99 (PSA 7 VCP average $12.17)
435 Frank Robinson NM, sold for $9.29 (PSA 7 VCP average $34.18)
513 Tom Carroll NM, unsold at $0.99 (PSA 7 VCP average $11.48)
30 Nellie Fox NM, unsold at $10.00 (PSA 7 VCP average $25.57)

Someone is welcome to do the same thing searching for "1959 topps near mint -psa -sgc". You'll find pretty much the same thing.

bobsbbcards

Here are the auction results for "1959 topps near mint -NM -sgc -psa":

350 Ernie Banks near mint, unsold at $44.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $62.71)
565 Wes Covington AS near mint +, sold for $8.07 (PSA 7 VCP average $16.19)
539 Gary Blaylock near mint +, sold for $4.25 (PSA 7 VCP average $18.10)
534 Faye Throneberry near mint +, sold for $8.50 (PSA 7 VCP average $19.99)
530 Wally Moon near mint +, sold for $19.08 (PSA 7 VCP average $25.88)
523 Harry Bright near mint +, sold for $11.29 (PSA 7 VCP average $12.30) - Card was described as having sharp corners, but you could see in the scan that it didn't. Also had nasty tilt. Buyer was foolish.
518 Mike Cuellar near mint +, sold for $17.39 (PSA 7 VCP average $27.37)
506 Bob Purkey near mint +, sold for $11.61 (PSA 7 VCP average $15.06)
503 Jim Owens near mint +, sold for $1.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $10.58)
501 Bobby Tiefenauer near mint +, unsold at $1.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $6.58)
500 Vic Wertz near mint +, sold for $10.00 (PSA 7 VCP average $11.59)
450 Eddie Mathews near mint +, sold for $22.53 (PSA 7 VCP average $65.31)
449 Tom Gorman near mint +, sold for $3.32 (PSA 7 VCP average $10.08)
448 Vada Pinson near mint +, sold for $3.80 (PSA 7 VCP average $12.12)
298 Tex Clevenger near mint, sold for $1.47 (PSA 7 VCP average $7.37)
23 Murray Dickson NEAR MINT, sold for $5.50 (PSA 7 VCP average $16.87)
150 Stan Musial NEAR MINT, sold for $86.75 (PSA 7 VCP average $97.26)
550 Roy Campanella NEAR MINT, unsold at $99.99 (PSA 7 VCP average $135.99)
300 Richie Ashburn NEAR MINT, unsold at $19.95 (PSA 7 VCP average $36.11)

bobsbbcards

...and for those who like to use the word MINT, "1959 topps mint -near -nm -psa -sgc":

113 Taylor Phillips MINT, sold for $0.01 (PSA 7 VCP average $8.92)
478 Roberto Clemente MINT MINT MINT, sold for $77.00 (PSA 7 VCP average $135.27)

bobsbbcards

Current VCP average value for a 1959 set in all PSA 7: $10,785.34

If you were selling a raw set with a guarantee that each and every one of the cards would come back from PSA as a 7 (no 6s and no 8s), then a reasonable price for the raw set would be around $8,200 (figuring that you could get a deal from PSA on grading and that you wouldn't pay more than $4.50 per card).

Of course, nobody can make a guarantee like that. We've all sent in cards that we knew were 8s (or 9s or 7s or 6s) and got hosed (or pleasantly surprised when they came back higher). If I was trying to buy a raw set such as the one described in the original post, I'm sure that I would offer less than $8,200.

bobsbbcards

Again, for those who like statistics (and have no life):

Mean (average) price for a PSA 7 1959 Topps card: $18.86
Median (half more/half less) price for a PSA 7 1959 Topps card: $9.92

Top 30 cards in PSA 7 (not counting variations):
10 Mickey Mantle $636.32
514 Bob Gibson $354.93
572 Billy Pierce (All-Star) $249.88
564 Mickey Mantle (All-Star) $213.66
222 Bobby Shantz $194.76
163 Sandy Koufax $161.56
380 Hank Aaron $142.01
550 Roy Campanella $135.99
478 Bob Clemente $135.27
50 Willie Mays $128.13
510 New York Yankees $119.95
104 Del Rice $117.06
8 Philadelphia Phillies $113.54
1 Ford Frick $111.33
515 Harmon Killebrew $106.17
561 Hank Aaron (All-Star) $98.82
150 Stan Musial $97.26
202 Roger Maris $90.44
563 Willie Mays (All-Star) $88.66
461 Mickey Mantle (Baseball Thrills) $88.56
180 Yogi Berra $86.94
11 Billy Hunter $82.65
250 Billy O'Dell $72.19
543 Corsair Outfield Trio $69.98
40 Warren Spahn (Born 1921) $69.82
509 Norm Cash $66.39
450 Ed Mathews $65.31
519 Infield Power $64.54
350 Ernie Banks $62.71
559 Ernie Banks (All-Star) $57.14


NOTE: None of these prices includes S&H.

HammeringHank

I actually have more than $17,000 in the set...I bought high unfortunately...I believe it might be one of the finest ungraded 59 set around when you consider that all 572 cards are dead-centered as well...back then I was popping cards out of holders...the set is extremely nice to look at in the binder...I don't think that I will ever recoup my cost...but that was not the point...I was able to create "my" set...my way...it's not the grade...it's the card is my motto...

bobsbbcards

Your set sounds more like a PSA 8 set. What are the corners like?