1854-S G$5

Dahlonega

Always wanted one but, never had the opportunity or wherewithal. As I enter the winter of my life the wherewithal might be feasible but, is one likely to be available over the next decade? Or is it just another Liberty half eagle that I should forget. Any leads?

coinmanic

That is a tough coin. It would take a barrel full of money and one of Bears kidneys, even if you could locate it.

MrEureka

The only one that has come out since I've been in the game is the Eliasberg specimen. It's in strong hands, but you never know.

RYK

I do not imagine the opportunity will arise. You could settle for the quarter eagle.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>The only one that has come out since I've been in the game is the Eliasberg specimen. >>



Wow.

coinmanic

How many are known to exist?

RYK

<< <i>How many are known to exist? >>



3, two in private hands

KentuckyJ

Tell Ryan Seacrest, seriously. I see no reason why a very elusive rare coin shouldn't qualify as a legitimate long time dream. All you have to do is make a very entertaining presentation.

click the Chance link in this thread for RSP advance promo look

RYK

Tell Ryan Seacrest, seriously. I see no reason why a very elusive rare coin shouldn't qualify as a legitimate long time dream. All you have to do is make a very entertaining presentation.

For $250,000, perhaps you could rent it for a couple months.

At any rate, it is more about the opportunity than the cost. I do not think that Ryan Seacrest can make one appear.

KentuckyJ

> it is more about the opportunity than the cost. I do not think that Ryan Seacrest can make one appear.


Agreed. However, I would love to see him try

VillaRica

Wow, that is a seriously rare coin. More likely a lifetime pursuit.

lcoopie

pcgs price guide link

Baley

the first SF mint 1854-S five is excessively rare, obviously

the next year, 1855-S, features the large S mint mark, plus the quirky Longacre italic 55

fc

there are some coins i just do not give much thought to anymore and the
1854-S lib half eagle is one of them.

even if you owned it.. it would just sit in a bank vault somewhere for the
majority of the time you owned it. better to just get some high res pics and
print them out.. and pretend.

Aegis3

<< <i>

<< <i>How many are known to exist? >>



3, two in private hands >>



Do we have a photo and good, non-contradictory pedigree for the third one?

fc

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>How many are known to exist? >>



3, two in private hands >>



Do we have a photo and good, non-contradictory pedigree for the third one? >>



here is some information when i was seeking out just a picture of this coin.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=600626&highlight_key=y&keyword1=1854

Aegis3

Let me rethink what I am thinking. We've all seen pictures of the Eliasberg coin (is it in the P.... collection now?). We've possibly seen in person the Lilly-Smithsonian coin, not that I remember doing so. Most of us, including me, do not have the Wolfson auction catalogs. The Breen pedigrees seem to me to be to some extent confusing, and I've wondered (in my head) whether or not the Wolfson and SI coins are one and the same. So, do we have photos of the SI and Wolfson coins, and does someone know where the Wolfson coin is now, if it is different?

fc

why do i remember some story about a lady walking a 54S into a show
one day and selling it? is that one of the three or just a story...

savoyspecial

>>why do i remember some story about a lady walking a 54S into a show
one day and selling it? is that one of the three or just a story... >>



i recall the story as well from a couple of years ago......i want to say it was the 1854-S Quarter eagle and not the Half eagle but i could be mistaken......i'm thinking it was a westcoast (Calif.) show and the coin was handed down from her Asian-born (great?) grandparents.....

adamlaneus

It's hard to imagine why the mint would go through the trouble of making so few half eagles.

My only suggestion is the stupid one.

There are lots of 1854-S eagles out there. In fact perhaps there are too many.
Get one of those and cut 'er in half the long way.
Then get this Coin Shrinker guy to shrink both halves.
What you end up with will be as close as a mortal can come to a 1854-S half eagle.

RYK

<< <i>>>why do i remember some story about a lady walking a 54S into a show
one day and selling it? is that one of the three or just a story... >>



i recall the story as well from a couple of years ago......i want to say it was the 1854-S Quarter eagle and not the Half eagle but i could be mistaken......i'm thinking it was a westcoast (Calif.) show and the coin was handed down from her Asian-born (great?) grandparents..... >>



It was the quarter eagle. It was graded XF-45 by NGC and sold by ANR for about $250k, IIRC.

Zoins

@Dahlonega said:
Always wanted one but, never had the opportunity or wherewithal. As I enter the winter of my life the wherewithal might be feasible but, is one likely to be available over the next decade? Or is it just another Liberty half eagle that I should forget. Any leads?

The two coins recently came available. I hope you were able to enjoy them.

1854-S Half Eagle - PCGS AU58+ CAC - Ex. F.C.C. Boyd, Louis E. Eliasberg Sr; D. Brent Pogue

• Cert: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/28572787
• Sale: https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-LYD1G/1854-s-liberty-head-half-eagle-au-58-pcgs-cac
• Sale Date: March 20, 2020
• Sale Price: $1,920,000 - This price was likely affected by the onset of the Coronavirus.

1854-S Half Eagle - PCGS XF45

• Cert: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/36833155
• Sale: https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-half-eagles/half-eagles/1854-s-5-xf45-pcgs-pcgs-8260-/a/1333-3433.s
• Sale Date: August 18, 2021
• Sale Price: $2,400,000

CaptHenway

The question was raised as to why would the Mint go to the trouble to make so few 1854-S Half Eagles. The same might be asked about the Quarter Eagles of that year.

There was a logical reason. People who deposited raw gold were supposed to be paid off in coin gold. Naturally, random deposits of odd weight raw gold in slightly varying finenesses yield random final values after refining and fees, if any. Those final values might end in any number from .01 to 9.99.

So, you make multiple batches $10's and $20's over and over again to pay off the bulk of the payouts, but first you make a small batch of $2-1/2's and $5's, and a slightly larger batch of $1 golds, and eventually some $3's, to settle up those odd number payouts. The depositor gets back most of his gold, and never more than 99 cents in small change.

RichR

Quite appropriate that a thread started by Dahlonega many years ago would be resurrected today...

LanceNewmanOCC

@Zoins said:

• Sale Price: $1,920,000 - This price was likely affected by the onset of the Coronavirus.

there is no shortage of commentary to be made for the contrast of quality between the 2 coins you posted vs their hammer prices and time frame.

i think i will just make this commentary/observation(s) for now and that is i bet there was someone willing to pay more for that amazing coin but at auction, it takes at least 2. did it show up somewhere else (dealer's site) for considerably more? the auction estimate was right on. BUT it seems that the potential buyers hadn't done their homework because their rather HUGE difference in quality between the 2 for the prices to be so close and within a year or so of each other, pandemic or no is difficult to overlook. also, i haven't looked at as many auctions for other firms compared to HA's wonderful site/archives so i can't comment about them bringing top-dollar for coins like this by comparison to HA. perhaps $2M for the au58+ is closer to what the perceived value actually is and the lower quality one was overpaid for? many variables as usual as we certainly have seen plenty of variance like this for many 5, 6 and 7 figure coins.

that glamor shot of the au58+ is nice but after viewing the SB full slab images (ty SB), i am compelled to show what it would look like, most likely, in-hand.

vulcanize

@Zoins said:

@Dahlonega said:
Always wanted one but, never had the opportunity or wherewithal. As I enter the winter of my life the wherewithal might be feasible but, is one likely to be available over the next decade? Or is it just another Liberty half eagle that I should forget. Any leads?

The two coins recently came available. I hope you were able to enjoy them.

1854-S Half Eagle - PCGS AU58+ CAC - Ex. F.C.C. Boyd, Louis E. Eliasberg Sr; D. Brent Pogue

• Cert: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/28572787
• Sale: https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-LYD1G/1854-s-liberty-head-half-eagle-au-58-pcgs-cac
• Sale Date: March 20, 2020
• Sale Price: $1,920,000 - This price was likely affected by the onset of the Coronavirus.

1854-S Half Eagle - PCGS XF45

• Cert: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/36833155
• Sale: https://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-half-eagles/half-eagles/1854-s-5-xf45-pcgs-pcgs-8260-/a/1333-3433.s
• Sale Date: August 18, 2021
• Sale Price: $2,400,000

Cross posted from the thread with the announcement about the thread starter

If there were only three known and one is at Smithsonian while the other one was stolen in 10/1967 and never recovered, surely makes one wonder as to how the two ended up on the auction block in 2020 and 2021. Makes one go hmmmm!!!!!

1 AU58+ PCGS grade

F.C.C. Boyd Collection - Numismatic Gallery 1/1946:543, $5,500 - Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. Collection - Bowers & Ruddy 10/1982:471, $187,000 - D. Brent Pogue Collection

2 EF45 estimated grade

Discovered by B. Max Mehl sometime between 1933 and 1949 [per the 1962 Stack’s catalog] - Samuel W. Wolfson Collection, Part I - Stack’s 10/1962:448, $16,500 - Willis H. Dupont Collection - stolen in 10/1967 and never recovered

3 EF40 estimated grade

Waldo C. Newcomer Collection (cost $400) - B. Max Mehl - Col. E.H.R. Green Collection - King Farouk of Egypt - Sotheby's "Palace Collection" 2/1954 - Norweb Collection - Josiah Lilly, donated in 1968 - National Numismatic Collection at the Smithsonian Institution

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1854-s-5/8260

LanceNewmanOCC

@vulcanize said:

wasn't this the date/mm/denom that someone tried to sell to a dealer at a show in the past few? years but passed figuring it was a counterfeit, only for it to be posted about here some time after in a TPG holder ready for auction?

now i think about it, perhaps it was a lesser value but major find in the 50-150k range? something is ratting around about this in my noggin.

yosclimber

We discussed the examples of this coin in 2018 when the EF-45 was authenticated and sold at auction.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/998024/find-of-a-lifetime-collector-finds-fourth-known-1854-s-5-and-authenticated-ats
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/998528/the-wolfson-dupont-1854-s-half-eagle-compared-to-the-newly-discovered-piece
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1002792/1854-s-5-half-eagle-to-cross-auction-for-over-1-million

And the Eliasberg / Pogue example is now in the D.L. Hansen collection
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12567543/#Comment_12567543

vulcanize

@yosclimber said:
We discussed the examples of this coin in 2018 when the EF-45 was authenticated and sold at auction.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/998024/find-of-a-lifetime-collector-finds-fourth-known-1854-s-5-and-authenticated-ats
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/998528/the-wolfson-dupont-1854-s-half-eagle-compared-to-the-newly-discovered-piece
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1002792/1854-s-5-half-eagle-to-cross-auction-for-over-1-million

And the Eliasberg / Pogue example is now in the D.L. Hansen collection
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12567543/#Comment_12567543

Thank you.
Wonder why the PCGS data has not been updated for such a rare coin?

yosclimber

@vulcanize said:
Wonder why the PCGS data has not been updated for such a rare coin?

PCGS CoinFacts is out of date in places, probably because it is expensive to pay someone to maintain/update it.
The last paragraph was updated in 2018 to describe the EF-45 authenticated and sold in 2018,
but the table listing the known examples was not updated.

It's still an excellent resource.

vulcanize

@yosclimber said:

@vulcanize said:
Wonder why the PCGS data has not been updated for such a rare coin?

PCGS CoinFacts is out of date in places, probably because it is expensive to pay someone to maintain/update it.
The last paragraph was updated in 2018 to describe the EF-45 authenticated and sold in 2018,
but the table listing the known examples was not updated.

It's still an excellent resource.

I agree. But there was chatter that it crossed over from NGC to PCGS and that should have been more the reason for the pages to be updated.

Wahoo554

DW speculated a couple years ago that the Pogue example could sell for $5m. If it were to come up now rather than March of 2020 I highly suspect it would have gone for substantially more Than what Hansen paid. He got a real bargain all things considered.