Thanks!

C0inCollect0r

Thanks for all the replies guys!

TomB

If I recall correctly, ebay will not allow someone to list within the title a numerical grade for a coin that is raw. Of course it can be done, but the seller might find the listing cancelled. Regardless, if there was no guarantee given that the coin would grade at a specific level at a TPG then the buyer has no right to expect an unconditional return. However, counterfeits may always be returned.

Placid

I liked it better when pcgs would mark a coin not genuine.
Questionable authenticty to me is like saying we cant tell if its real or not. Rather than saying its not the real thing for sure.

BXBOY143

<< <i>I liked it better when pcgs would mark a coin not genuine.
Questionable authenticty to me is like saying we cant tell if its real or not. Rather than saying its not the real thing for sure. >>

Woozy

1) If you are within the time period for filing a Significantly not as described (SNAD) claim through PayPal, as the buyer you will be overwhelmingly likely to prevail and be returned the purchase price minus the cost of return shipping. What I gather from reading the experiences of people involved in SNAD disputes on these forums and the EBay forums is that the buyer will almost always prevail in these claims for almost any reason. Where you ultimately stand legally and morally, I'm not sure, but it seems you can be fairly certain of getting your $ back through PayPal.

2) A counterfeit coin should always be returnable for a full refund unless it was clearly sold as such (although the legality of selling/owning a known counterfeit may also be questionable.) I'm not sure what recourse you have through PayPal if the window for filing a SNAD has closed in this case.

Boom

Not sure I follow your thoughts but the "rule" in sales, overall IS,

if you tamper with a coin's holder, it loses it's identity and you own it.

C0inCollect0r

Interesting...so say even if the dealer says the grade is just his opinion - I guess Paypal is so Buyer-Friendly they would still just give you a refund if the grade came back low at PCGS?

PrivateCoinCollector

<< <i>Interesting...so say even if the dealer says the grade is just his opinion - I guess Paypal is so Buyer-Friendly they would still just give you a refund if the grade came back low at PCGS? >>



No way would PayPal cover that. They would be out millions. that is what return policies are for. I think the comment was around it being authentic or not. It won't be automatic that that PayPal will assume that the same coin that you purchased was the same coin found to have the issue.

C0inCollect0r

That's what I would have figured - frankly I find it a bit absurd that Paypal would find in the favor of the buyer in that situation, but I have heard that they do.

09sVDB

There is only one dealer that will gaurentee raw coins to grade at the sold grade or higher let alone EBay. So in either case I would think you would be out the $$.

grote15

< Interesting...so say even if the dealer says the grade is just his opinion - I guess Paypal is so Buyer-Friendly they would still just give you a refund if the grade came back low at PCGS? >>



No way would PayPal cover that. They would be out millions. that is what return policies are for. I think the comment was around it being authentic or not. It won't be automatic that that PayPal will assume that the same coin that you purchased was the same coin found to have the issue.

Paypal doesn't cover that, they make the seller do that. Paypal will IMMEDIATELY debit your paypal account for the full purchase price of an item (including all shipping charges) once a claim is filed by a buyer within the 45-day window. If there are no funds in the seller's account, the seller will have a negative balance and all future payments to that paypal account will go towards offsetting the negative balance. If no payments are forthcoming, paypal can and will aggressively pursue collections activity.

As a poster already stated above, paypal will invariably grant the opportunity for a buyer to return an item for a full refund regardless of any stated policy in the auction, as long as the buyer sends the item back with DC (sig confirmation if it's over $250). As a seller on ebay these days, you have to be prepared for that policy, or you will get burned.

mrpotatoheadd

1) If you want a PCGS MS65 coin, you should buy one already in the holder.

2) If you send the coin back in the condition in which you received it, the seller ought to send you a refund.

C0inCollect0r

Yeah this is interesting indeed...even as a large-scale buyer, this Paypal policy sounds rather ridiculous. What's to stop a buyer from sending back a different coin, or even worse, an empty box with delivery confirmation? How exactly can sellers even protect themselves given this policy?

themaster

Ebay is just one step above the HSN in souring the uninformed and driving them away from the hobby.


Have a Great Day!
Louis

Bayard1908

<< <i>If no payments are forthcoming, paypal can and will aggressively pursue collections activity. >>



Collection of what? Without a judgment, I would laugh at them.

RBinTex

"There is only one dealer that will gaurentee raw coins to grade at the sold grade or higher let alone EBay. So in either case I would think you would be out the $$."

I know of at least 3 (L&C, RCNH, RC - i.e. me) for sure & I'm sure many others would if only asked.

grote15

< If no payments are forthcoming, paypal can and will aggressively pursue collections activity. >>



Collection of what? Without a judgment, I would laugh at them.

Not sure what legalities are involved (paypal has a squadron of lawyers at their disposal), but I have heard that people with negative balances have received notices from collection agencies. The collections process is also expressly stated in their TOS, which you agree to when you sign up for a Paypal account. Storm on these boards would know more of the legal details in that regard, but bottom line is that buyers have all the power and sellers are getting screwed left and right. A seller on the card forum got back an empty box but had the foresight to open it in front of a postal employee. Not sure what would happen if an empty box or the wrong coin were shipped back. Paypal does have an appeals process for sellers but I'm not sure how efficient it is...

Bayard1908

<< <i>< If no payments are forthcoming, paypal can and will aggressively pursue collections activity. >>



Collection of what? Without a judgment, I would laugh at them.

Not sure what legalities are involved (paypal has a squadron of lawyers at their disposal), but I have heard that people with negative balances have received notices from collection agencies. The collections process is also expressly stated in their TOS, which you agree to when you sign up for a Paypal account. Storm on these boards would know more of the legal details in that regard, but bottom line is that buyers have all the power and sellers are getting screwed left and right. A seller on the card forum got back an empty box but had the foresight to open it in front of a postal employee. Not sure what would happen if an empty box or the wrong coin were shipped back. Paypal does have an appeals process for sellers but I'm not sure how efficient it is... >>



Without a judgment from a court, nobody can force you to pay anything. A collection agency has zero power or authority.

grote15

< If no payments are forthcoming, paypal can and will aggressively pursue collections activity. >>



Collection of what? Without a judgment, I would laugh at them.

Not sure what legalities are involved (paypal has a squadron of lawyers at their disposal), but I have heard that people with negative balances have received notices from collection agencies. The collections process is also expressly stated in their TOS, which you agree to when you sign up for a Paypal account. Storm on these boards would know more of the legal details in that regard, but bottom line is that buyers have all the power and sellers are getting screwed left and right. A seller on the card forum got back an empty box but had the foresight to open it in front of a postal employee. Not sure what would happen if an empty box or the wrong coin were shipped back. Paypal does have an appeals process for sellers but I'm not sure how efficient it is... >>



Without a judgment from a court, nobody can force you to pay anything. A collection agency has zero power or authority.

That may work out of you don't have payments coming in, but most sellers have other auction items up and those payments will go towards the debit in your paypal account and you will be out the funds in the end.

A collection agency may have zero power or authority, but do you want to have to deal with them trying to collect the debt or reporting it to the credit bureau?

Edit: Also, do a Google check once on the tactics of sleazy collection agencies going directly into your bank account "by court order" to freeze funds they claim you owe. It happens more times than you'd think..at the very least it's a real headache and a hassle.