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What's with all the BINs?
Futureman
Posts: 135 ✭✭
Is it just the cards I'm searching for, or are there a lot more BINs/Best Offer (and fewer true auctions) being listed? Is anyone else noticing this? I don't sell on ebay, so I'm wondering if there was a change in fees that might have increased the number of BINs listed, as a way to bypass a fee increase. Even with the BINs included, it seems like there are fewer listings all together. Isn't anyone selling?
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Comments
Steve
<< <i>Sellers are using more BIN's because in true auctions they were losing their shirts.
Steve >>
Ditto. The number of bidders on auctions have declined so you don't get the same action as before.
Agreed the market is way too thin for auctions these days.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Items like high numbers and stars that generally reach market i started at 9.99 (or 1/4 market)
Gone are the days of 0.99 starts with cards reaching market.
Steve
I think it should only be BIN listings, because this whole auction thing is bringing cards prices way too low. Of course I like to get a nice deal too, but auctions are definetly not good when you wanna sell, but if your buying then its great. I'm not complaining too much, because there are some great prices out there, but I hate when I sell a $100 for 30 bucks, haha.
<< <i>I guess sellers are tires of their $50 cards selling on auction for 5 bucks, or $300 cards selling for 75 bucks, and so on...
I think it should only be BIN listings, because this whole auction thing is bringing cards prices way too low. Of course I like to get a nice deal too, but auctions are definetly not good when you wanna sell, but if your buying then its great. I'm not complaining too much, because there are some great prices out there, but I hate when I sell a $100 for 30 bucks, haha. >>
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason that many "$300 cards" sell for $75 is because that is what they're worth?
BIN's are a vehicle to attempt to get your best price for an item, but an auction is the quickest way to realize an actual transaction. The auction may not meet your expectations, but it will typically end up at or near true market value.
What annoys me most are sellers that list their BIN at outrageous levels with the intent of letting it sit until a pigeon comes along and takes the seed. I'm not as much upset at the price as I am the fact that I know there's an item that I would like, but I have no interest in purchasing at such an inflated price (even using BigCrumbs, Bing/Live, and other discounts). Even more frustrating is contacting some of these sellers and attempting to work out a deal. Most of them won't budge and are actually quite rude in their replies.
<< <i>Sellers are using more BIN's because in true auctions they were losing their shirts.
Steve >>
I agree, I believe the market and the sniping programs have caused more BIN's and more auctions starting at the least price the seller is willing to take.
What seller in their right mind wants to watch one of their 100 dollar cards set at 99 cents up until the last 15 seconds of the auction and hope there are 4 or 5 snipers with realistic offers, only to see their card sell for 8 or 10 bucks or less.
There is a knack to pricing BIN's so that you get a decent sell through rate and still get the upper end of a card's value, but many sellers go for the jugular and unless they have a lot of inventory (dollar wise) their sales are usually weak.
What's with all the BINs?
//////////////////
Sellers of commodity items cannot make money using the auction
format.
Retail buyers want BINs with BOs, or just BINs. Buyers not patient
enough to wait a few days for their items to be shipped, are
certainly not patient enough to wait a week just to BUY those
items.
JD said last month that his "vision" for EBAY is to be the world's
largest "outlet mall." He is well on his way.
The new class of EBAYers is not remotely interested in "bidding" on
items. Further, the items they want have NOTHING to do with
collectibles. Hikes in the new kind of traffic bring no new business
to card sellers.
EBAY's only competition is AMZN. The core inventory of both is fashion
and electronics. That is not going to change. While EBAY has little
chance of "beating" AMZN, JD is determined to stick with the fight.
The CRUSHED economy has not helped, but auction results clearly
show that selling via auction is great for sharpshooting collectors
and bargain hunters, but TERRIBLE for sellers.
...........
When a traveler does not know that he is lost, he sees no need to ask for directions.
Is eBay Phasing out 'Voices' Focus-Group Program?
By Ina Steiner
AuctionBytes.com
August 20, 2009
eBay told members of its 10-year old "Voices of the Community" program, commonly referred to as Voices, that it was purging the group of its founding members. The program was launched in 1999 as a focus group after the company faced a negative outpouring from the community over changes it had made.
eBay ejected over 30 members from the program, whose participants give eBay monthly input into features and programs during the development process. There are 47 groups in Voices comprised of about 130 active members. Voices members are not paid, and some of them worked within the program for a decade to help eBay grow the site. Voices members also often acted as eBay's biggest advocates in the community.
Update: We spoke to eBay on Thursday about the Voices program news. Garnor Morantes, Senior Manager of Seller Development for eBay Marketplaces, who is responsible for Voices, said he is very happy and very proud of the program, and wanted to be clear that there are no plans to end Voices, and that eBay is continuing to recruit buyers and sellers into the program.
"This change is something we've been thinking about for a while and is meant to give others the chance to participate in the program. We're looking to bring in some new perspectives, some new buyers and sellers - all levels of selling." Mr. Morantes said that with the recent change, the Voices program now has about 100 participants, with about 10 who are exclusively buyers, and the remaining who are active sellers who may also do some buying as well. All levels of powersellers are represented.
Scaling down the membership to roughly 100 members will allow eBay to most effectively manage Voices input. Going forward on a yearly basis, eBay will retire some groups as it brings in new members.
Morantes said eBay reached out to all participants to explain the change and has been completely transparent in what they are trying to achieve. "The people I've spoken to certainly understood the decision and understood our goal of reaching out and providing an opportunity for others to participate in the program."
eBay spokesperson John Pluhowski said, "Voices was created to gain insights from active buyers and sellers. Its essence has not changed nor has our commitment to it. It is woven into the fabric of eBay and we value the contributions that all members have made over the years."
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..................................
EBAY Responds..........
I saw something interesting over on AuctionBytes.com today regarding the changes made to the eBay Voices program earlier this week with the headline “Is eBay Phasing out ‘Voices’ Focus-Group Program?” to which my immediate, well thought out response was… “Huh?”
For those unaware, the Voices program was established in 1999 as a focus group designed to represent the many levels of community members active in the eBay marketplace. Over the years, members have both joined and left in order to keep the opinions and feedback of the group both timely and fresh. The group, targeted to sit at around 100 members to ensure eBay’s ability to effectively manage the input and discussion, had grown beyond that. As a result, and in an effort to maintain a fresh perspective from participants, some 30 longstanding members were notified earlier this week that although their dedication and tireless efforts to the program were invaluable to the eBay Marketplace over the past decade, it was time to allow new members the opportunity to provide input and counsel. It should be noted, all retiring members have been encouraged to continue providing unfiltered, constructive input to the team that manages Voices, albeit not as members of the formal Voices program.
To be honest, I hadn’t covered this news earlier in the week because I know this isn’t the first time we’ve revamped the group to keep it current. Not taking away anything from those members no longer participating in the program of course. Plus, Garnor Morantes and John Pluhowski did a great job of tracking down Ina Steiner to provide explanation and comment:
The decision to continue to keep a group innovative and fresh with ideas seems pretty good to me to be honest and the AuctionBytes blog post seems to reflect that also. However, what I don’t understand, given the obvious attention to accurate reporting and due diligence made to obtain the background information, why is it even suggested that eBay maybe “phasing out its Voices Program” as the title asks in big, bold font?
I get that skepticism is necessary with every story and any reporter or blogger worth their salt has to ask all the necessary questions before drawing conclusions. However, to run a blog post with such an inflammatory headline, only to proceed it with comments and statements from eBay spokespeople ensuring the contrary, I don’t know what that accomplishes rather than create controversy where there really isn’t any.
On a related note, and I mean no disrespect to the Voices program at all – I know it serves a very viable and constructive purpose for the betterment of our Marketplace – but with the advent of so many social media outlets now – from blogs, to Twitter feeds, to Facebook, etc. – I would say that the entire Internet is now a “Voices” group and you don’t need to be told whether you’re a member or not to have an opinion and share that opinion wherever you see fit (like in the Comments section below for example).
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The thing I always find humorous is the people who buy the $300 book value card for $50, then complain that the seller charged them $3 shipping, when the bubble mailer only showed $2.42, that THEY got ripped off of 58 cents.
<< <i>What annoys me most are sellers that list their BIN at outrageous levels with the intent of letting it sit until a pigeon comes along and takes the seed. I'm not as much upset at the price as I am the fact that I know there's an item that I would like, but I have no interest in purchasing at such an inflated price (even using BigCrumbs, Bing/Live, and other discounts). Even more frustrating is contacting some of these sellers and attempting to work out a deal. Most of them won't budge and are actually quite rude in their replies. >>
I like the sellers that just block you from bidding if you send a Best Offer they don't like... why have a Best Offer then? The seller 50west did this to me, which I thought was funny because he recently had some Ripken's in auctions that I wanted, they all ended with no bidders, so he basically lost money from me for being an a$$.
<< <i>How is BIN "Great for sellers" when most cards do not sell at those prices? I thought the point to selling is to actually sell cards, not to have a store full of over-priced items? >>
////////////////////////
BINs are not "great," but they are more profitable for EBAY's
commodity-sellers than are auctions.
The notion that merch has to be moved quickly is leftover
from the B&M days. Virtual shelf-space is not in the same
realm as ACTUAL shelf-space.
In one room of their houses, small online-sellers can cheaply
stock/store merch that would require THOUSANDS of sq/ft of
EXPENSIVE B&M space to display/store.
The "point of selling" is to sell cards PROFITABLY; not to
pay for the privilege of giving cards away.
Auction sellers who just want to move cards and collect feedback - and
don't care about making money - are willing to do TEN times the work
that patient BIN sellers are.
I would rather sell ONE item and make $10, than sell TEN items
and make the same $10.
<< <i>How is BIN "Great for sellers" when most cards do not sell at those prices? I thought the point to selling is to actually sell cards, not to have a store full of over-priced items? >>
BIN is "great for sellers" because you never have to sell a card for a price lower than what you want. As others have mentioned, I'll sell a card for a certain price, but unless I have a best offer option on that item, I'd rather keep it than sell it for less. Maybe it seems high, but it's my card and my price. I don't sell as a business, but only as a means to help pay for a part of my hobby. That being said, I don't make it a point to lose money either. Besides, you'd be surprised what prices people will pay for BIN items. Instant gratification is a wonderful thing and it comes with a price.
Also, auctions are generally more attractive to bargain hunters than to serious buyers. Unless you are selling a particularly rare item, an auction is not likely to bring in near as much as a BIN. I often bid considerably less than I'm willing to pay with the hope of landing a great deal. Sometimes it works, but usually not. If not, I just plunk down a little more for a BIN with a trusted seller.
Steve
<< <i>I guess sellers are tires of their $50 cards selling on auction for 5 bucks, or $300 cards selling for 75 bucks, and so on...
I think it should only be BIN listings, because this whole auction thing is bringing cards prices way too low. Of course I like to get a nice deal too, but auctions are definetly not good when you wanna sell, but if your buying then its great. I'm not complaining too much, because there are some great prices out there, but I hate when I sell a $100 for 30 bucks, haha. >>
As someone else stated, Did ya ever stop to think maybe the card is only worth $75.
What about buyers who are tired of being insulted by ridiculously high prices listed in many of the BIN?
BMW and Mark'sFootballcards are two of the most grossly overpriced BIN you will find. I just can't believe there are enough suckers and fools out there to keep these guys listing. I can only assume that their main prey are Registry people with more money than common sense.
Cards have never been and investment for profit to me. It's simply entertainment. Sure there are investment type cards, but there are WAY to many "Speculative" and "Whats it Worth Collector's" who drive up and create misleading prices for more common type cards.
I hope more BIG submitters like 4SC continue to drive populations higher and higher. Maybe then the fools who bought those "1 of 1" overhyped 10's will finally see the light.
Bottom line? VCP, SMR, Beckett, Tuff Stuff, etc... Simply guides and not one of the 10 commandments. I also don't give a rat's arse what you paid for it. You bought it and nobody owes you the right to a profit on it.
IT'S ONLY WORTH WHAT SOMEONES WILLING TO GIVE YOU FOR IT.
///////////////////////////////////
Yup.
And, patient BIN-sellers get to wait for the right someone.
<< <i>What about buyers who are tired of being insulted by ridiculously high prices listed in many of the BIN? >>
Why would a buyer be insulted by a BIN price? If it's too high, drive on through and move along to the next item. If you want to try and get a "deal", compete in an auction against other bidders. If you can't find another item like it, perhaps it's worth more than you think. Like Storm said, patient sellers get to wait for the right buyer. Last time I checked, this was still a free market capitalist society where sellers can set a pricing as they see fit. I wouldn't want it any other way.
What about buyers who are tired of being insulted by ridiculously high prices listed in many of the BIN?
What about them?
Steve
With no way to see the bidding, this happens more than we like to think... a lot more.
Mike
The key for me is patience. The cards I am looking for will eventually come up on auction or a reasonable BIN. There is nothing I collect that is extremely rare.
<< <i>I agree with Steve, who agrees with Brett... plus, you don't have to worry about getting shilled. >>
I agree with Mike, who agrees with Steve who agreed with Brett.
It is also very true that a card is worth at least as much as the minimum price a seller is willing to sell it for.
<< <i>While its true that a card may be only worth what someone is willing to pay for it....
It is also very true that a card is worth at least as much as the minimum price a seller is willing to sell it for. >>
Actually, that paradox may not be entirely accurate. While the seller may value their card at $XXX.XX, until such time as it sells, it has no value other than that at which it is liquid. When seller and buyer cannot agree on a price, there is a value only at the level to which the buyer will execute the transaction. A bag of widgets is only worth as much as someone will pay to own a bag of widgets, otherwise it is just overpriced inventory.
//////////////////////////
A bag of widgets is worth the lowest price at which its current owner is willing to sell it for.
<< <i>Dont get me started on that!! I had a low pop star sell on Memory Lane (VCP avg $2,500) sell for only $800 this past auction.....some bidding war! >>
I know
But I had one recently sell for 1700, when I expected under 1000, I've had other examples too
Using BIN, I'd have put about $1000 on it, not expecting anywhere near what it went for
<< <i>"...A bag of widgets is only worth as much as someone will pay to own a bag of widgets .."
//////////////////////////
A bag of widgets is worth the lowest price at which its current owner is willing to sell it for. >>
Assuming the seller has a buyer at the lowest price that the seller will accept.
<< <i>
<< <i>"...A bag of widgets is only worth as much as someone will pay to own a bag of widgets .."
//////////////////////////
A bag of widgets is worth the lowest price at which its current owner is willing to sell it for. >>
Assuming the seller has a buyer at the lowest price that the seller will accept. >>
///////////////////////////////////////
I am a big booster of the notion that cash is king.
BUT, many EBAY buyers seem to think they are
dealing with broke folks when they "expect"
sellers to reduce asking prices.
A seller with plenty of money NEVER "needs" to
reduce his asking price. LOTS of EBAY sellers have
plenty of money. They sell on EBAY to get MORE
money; not to break even and not to lose money.
If such sellers wait a long time for a buyer, they
don't care. They KNOW that eventually somebody
will buy their item at the advertised price.
<< <i>LOTS of EBAY sellers have plenty of money. >>
Agreed. That said, I've been able to get some deals via desperate sellers. But unfortunately, there is no way (for me at least) to know who is or is not a desperate seller. The ones I've come across have been by pure chance.
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"...A bag of widgets is only worth as much as someone will pay to own a bag of widgets .."
//////////////////////////
A bag of widgets is worth the lowest price at which its current owner is willing to sell it for. >>
Assuming the seller has a buyer at the lowest price that the seller will accept. >>
///////////////////////////////////////
I am a big booster of the notion that cash is king.
BUT, many EBAY buyers seem to think they are
dealing with broke folks when they "expect"
sellers to reduce asking prices.
A seller with plenty of money NEVER "needs" to
reduce his asking price. LOTS of EBAY sellers have
plenty of money. They sell on EBAY to get MORE
money; not to break even and not to lose money.
If such sellers wait a long time for a buyer, they
don't care. They KNOW that eventually somebody
will buy their item at the advertised price. >>
There are also some wise folks that realize that moving inventory and putting the revenue back into play several times over is far more profitable than waiting months and months for a sale that nets them their asking price (in the event that the item eventually sells).
Assuming Seller #1 has a business model that works on a 25% margin, 4 transactions of $500.00 and reinvestment of capital will return approximately $500.00 profit. Seller #2, working on a 50% model, needs only 2 sales and reinvestment of capital for the same profit margin, but may wait much longer to consummate those sales.
Personally, I would rather work on a margin that allows me to make a reasonable profit and continue to move material, reinvest the capital and to be somewhat liquid with regard to inventory. In this hobby and current economic market, flexibility and cash reserves (liquidity) are more valuable than the "value" of one's inventory.
Assuming Seller #1 has a business model that works on a 25% margin, 4 transactions of $500.00 and reinvestment of capital will return approximately $500.00 profit. Seller #2, working on a 50% model, needs only 2 sales and reinvestment of capital for the same profit margin, but may wait much longer to consummate those sales.
Personally, I would rather work on a margin that allows me to make a reasonable profit and continue to move material, reinvest the capital and to be somewhat liquid with regard to inventory. In this hobby and current economic market, flexibility and cash reserves (liquidity) are more valuable than the "value" of one's inventory.
Scott,
The flaw in this argument based on what storm is saying is that there is no need to "reinvest" since the seller already has more money than he will ever need to make one particular purchase. If it were a situation where there was unlimited product that one could profit off of (i.e. cars if you're running a dealership), that would be one thing. If I'm understanding storm correctly, he has the funds to buy any cards he think he can make money on. He does not need the capital from current sales in order to make these purchases, so whether he waits 2 days or 2 months to get the sale on a particular item, it has no effect on his bottom line (except accumulated interest). There are only a finite number of cards out there within a person's line of sight to profit off of. If storm (or any other seller) was in a situation where he needed capital to make a particular purchase or series of purchases, he might use your strategy.
Lee
<< <i>I will pay $65 for a bag of widgets right now. Paypal ready. LMK. Check my bucket. >>
Forget the $65.00. I just want exceptional service and a memorable dining experience at your restaurant. What can I do to make that happen?
/s/ JackWESQ
The longest I've seen on any item is over 5 years. It's priced at a BIN OBO of about triple market value.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
It is the owners to price as he chooses.
Steve
--Claude
<< <i>There are also some wise folks that realize that moving inventory and putting the revenue back into play several times over is far more profitable than waiting months and months for a sale that nets them their asking price (in the event that the item eventually sells).
Assuming Seller #1 has a business model that works on a 25% margin, 4 transactions of $500.00 and reinvestment of capital will return approximately $500.00 profit. Seller #2, working on a 50% model, needs only 2 sales and reinvestment of capital for the same profit margin, but may wait much longer to consummate those sales.
Personally, I would rather work on a margin that allows me to make a reasonable profit and continue to move material, reinvest the capital and to be somewhat liquid with regard to inventory. In this hobby and current economic market, flexibility and cash reserves (liquidity) are more valuable than the "value" of one's inventory.
Scott,
The flaw in this argument based on what storm is saying is that there is no need to "reinvest" since the seller already has more money than he will ever need to make one particular purchase. If it were a situation where there was unlimited product that one could profit off of (i.e. cars if you're running a dealership), that would be one thing. If I'm understanding storm correctly, he has the funds to buy any cards he think he can make money on. He does not need the capital from current sales in order to make these purchases, so whether he waits 2 days or 2 months to get the sale on a particular item, it has no effect on his bottom line (except accumulated interest). There are only a finite number of cards out there within a person's line of sight to profit off of. If storm (or any other seller) was in a situation where he needed capital to make a particular purchase or series of purchases, he might use your strategy.
Lee >>
Lee:
Given such a scenario, is the seller in business to make a profit or to carry inventory? It's great to have deep pockets, but at some point pricing far beyond the market ceases to be an effective business model.
Nick
[edited for typo]
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
My post was just in general and not directed at anyone specifically.
Bottom line here is simply if someone chooses to price something too high it may not sell.
If they want to appear like they are a museum that is there business.
Steve
<< <i>
If such sellers wait a long time for a buyer, they
don't care. They KNOW that eventually somebody
will buy their item at the advertised price. >>
I feel like some dealers (707) will die before lowering their prices on a lot of cards. Literally. Whats the point of that?
john
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
BIN's are a vehicle to attempt to get your best price for an item, but an auction is the quickest way to realize an actual transaction. The auction may not meet your expectations, but it will typically end up at or near true market value.
What annoys me most are sellers that list their BIN at outrageous levels with the intent of letting it sit until a pigeon comes along and takes the seed. I'm not as much upset at the price as I am the fact that I know there's an item that I would like, but I have no interest in purchasing at such an inflated price (even using BigCrumbs, Bing/Live, and other discounts). Even more frustrating is contacting some of these sellers and attempting to work out a deal. Most of them won't budge and are actually quite rude in their replies."
<Nods.> Agree for the most part. Maybe Bruce Perry will read this and realize how stupid his BIN's are. He makes Levi look like a discounter.
Disagree that auctions are "terrible". I've found when you list more auctions, you get closer to market and in some cases exceed it. People like to buy in bulk more and more, and that brings more people out. In that respect, auctions are tracking the hobby where it seems more people prefer to buy and merge lots and sets than hunt for individual cards (at least those not on the registry drug).
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items