Are the Strawberries Genuine?
Coinosaurus
Posts: 9,637 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have been in a frothy frenzy™ ever since the Dan Holmes catalog of early cents arrived. I was reading up on the Strawberries last night and came upon this:
* In the 1996 COAC (p. 61), John Kleeberg wrote in part, commenting on comparison of large cent edge devices: "Nor have I remarked any similarity among the edge devices among the strawberry leaf cents themselves."
* Now in the Holmes catalog it describes a cadre of experts meeting at the ANS in 2004 to personally inspect three of the four known strawberries. The consensus of that group was that not only did the edge devices match, but that they also matched a good number of other early Sheldon varieties. The matching of the edge devices is a strong argument in favor of attributing the strawberries to the US mint.
Now, the Coinosaurus has the utmost respect for all the researchers, cataloguers, and institutions involved here. But at the same time, the published information seems to be less than 100% consistent.
What gives
* In the 1996 COAC (p. 61), John Kleeberg wrote in part, commenting on comparison of large cent edge devices: "Nor have I remarked any similarity among the edge devices among the strawberry leaf cents themselves."
* Now in the Holmes catalog it describes a cadre of experts meeting at the ANS in 2004 to personally inspect three of the four known strawberries. The consensus of that group was that not only did the edge devices match, but that they also matched a good number of other early Sheldon varieties. The matching of the edge devices is a strong argument in favor of attributing the strawberries to the US mint.
Now, the Coinosaurus has the utmost respect for all the researchers, cataloguers, and institutions involved here. But at the same time, the published information seems to be less than 100% consistent.
What gives
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Comments
Not sure it would help, but can you provide any more information about the Kleeberg comment that would put it into more context?
"Del Bland suggested that one way to solve the problem might be to compare the edge with a genuine wreath cent. I have compared the edge of the chain cents and the wreath cents in the ANS collections with each other and with the edges of three strawberry leaf cents. The vine and bars edge device on the chain cents and on the wreath cents are different. Apparently a new edge die was developed when the mint changed from making chain cents to making wreath cents. But when the edges of the chain cents are compared to other chain cents, and when the edges of the wreath cents are compared to other wreath cents, after a bit of adjusting to make sure that the edges are going in the right direction and making allowance for die slppage (which occurs on all examples), the similarity between identical edges is marked. I have noticed no such similarity between the edge devices on the wreath and chain cents on the one hand and on the strawberry leaf cents on the other. Nor have I remarked any similarity among the edge devices among the strawberry leaf cents themselves. The edge on the cents is well done, but I do not believe they were done with a Castaing machine. I think the edge was added by hand."
Of course, there's still a certain amount of subjectivity involved and eight years had passed. Maybe the team in 2004 had better equipment and conditions. Then again, maybe the group had their own agenda and wanted to make a case for attributing the Straberry Leave cents to the US mint. Maybe John Kleeberg was more objective.
They're genuine. I have no axe to grind either way but would stake my reputation on it. I've had them all in hand and convinced myself to the point of 100% certainty.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
Now, about those Jefferson heads ...
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>They're genuine. I have no axe to grind either way but would stake my reputation on it. I've had them all in hand and convinced myself to the point of 100% certainty. >>
Thanks John K.....This is good to know, as these cents have fascinated me for decades, though all I've ever seen are pictures.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>Since I've never seen a Strawberry Sprig cent, what is on the edge? >>
Strawberry Leaf Info
I would also read the info about this in the Dan Holmes catalog. I've found it's extremely difficult to find accurate, reliable, historical data.
Unless I missed it in that rather lengthy description, what decoration is being referred to on the edge?
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>That's a great write up LeeG, but all it relates to in the description is "edge decoration"
Unless I missed it in that rather lengthy description, what decoration is being referred to on the edge? >>
Here ya go:
Dan Holmes Collection
Go to Lot Number 7 & 8 area.
<< <i>John Kleeberg did not get to study the finest one, which is numerically 3 times as good as the next best.
They're genuine. I have no axe to grind either way but would stake my reputation on it. I've had them all in hand and convinced myself to the point of 100% certainty. >>
Now that I've read the strawberry leaf write-up in the Holmes catalog, I see that John Kleeberg was part of the December 2004 panel of expert researchers, and John Kraljevich was among a separate panel of experts who examined the finest known Strawberry Leaf.
Kleeberg apparently changed his mind from his earlier study of the coins.
Regardless...if John Kraljevich believes they are genuine US mint products, that's good enough for me.
<< <i>Regardless...if John Kraljevich believes they are genuine US mint products, that's good enough for me. >>
Me too. Of course, I'd still like to see photos of all four of the strawberry edges
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen