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The Legend of the lost wagon of 1907-D Barber dimes and quarters
Manorcourtman
Posts: 7,918 ✭✭✭✭
PCGS has graded less than 65 1907-D Barber dimes over the years. Finding the 07-D dime in AU and Higher is quite a tough chore. Well there is a legend that a wagon-load went over a canyon in Colorado and is summarized below from Coin facts:
"There were over 34 million dimes produced this year, the vast majority came from the Philadelphia Mint."
"1907-D has a scarcity that defies easy explanation. Rumor has it that a large shipment of these dimes (and quarters) met disaster when a delivery wagon toppled in the Black Canyon near Gunnison Colorado. This date not only is an R5 in mint state, but also is fairly tough in all circulated grades."1
The finest Uncirculated example graded by PCGS is a single MS-67.
Sources and/or recommended reading:
1. "The Complete Guide To Certified Barber Coinage" by David & John Feigenbaum
"The PCGS Population Report, July 2003" by The Professional Coin Grading Service
If you are a metal detector kind of guy and live near Colorado have you ever considered looking into this more closely? Imagine finding several thousand 1907-D Barber quarters and dimes in Mint state!! What a huge find this would be. Kinda makes me want to look more closely into this story. Anyone else ever research this "lost" shipment? A very cool legend nonetheless.
"There were over 34 million dimes produced this year, the vast majority came from the Philadelphia Mint."
"1907-D has a scarcity that defies easy explanation. Rumor has it that a large shipment of these dimes (and quarters) met disaster when a delivery wagon toppled in the Black Canyon near Gunnison Colorado. This date not only is an R5 in mint state, but also is fairly tough in all circulated grades."1
The finest Uncirculated example graded by PCGS is a single MS-67.
Sources and/or recommended reading:
1. "The Complete Guide To Certified Barber Coinage" by David & John Feigenbaum
"The PCGS Population Report, July 2003" by The Professional Coin Grading Service
If you are a metal detector kind of guy and live near Colorado have you ever considered looking into this more closely? Imagine finding several thousand 1907-D Barber quarters and dimes in Mint state!! What a huge find this would be. Kinda makes me want to look more closely into this story. Anyone else ever research this "lost" shipment? A very cool legend nonetheless.
0
Comments
NPS site
"No other canyon in North America combines the narrow opening, sheer walls, and startling depths offered by the Black Canyon of the Gunnison."
You would definitely have a big job ahead of you on this one.
It would be no easy task to track these down, and I'm sure 100 years exposed to the elements would has taken a great toll on them.
JJ
Clark & Gruber gold.
<< <i>PCGS has graded less than 65 1907-D Barber dimes over the years. Finding the 07-D dime in AU and Higher is quite a tough chore. Well there is a legend that a wagon-load went over a canyon in Colorado and is summarized below from Coin facts:
"There were over 34 million dimes produced this year, the vast majority came from the Philadelphia Mint."
"1907-D has a scarcity that defies easy explanation. Rumor has it that a large shipment of these dimes (and quarters) met disaster when a delivery wagon toppled in the Black Canyon near Gunnison Colorado. This date not only is an R5 in mint state, but also is fairly tough in all circulated grades."1
The finest Uncirculated example graded by PCGS is a single MS-67.
Sources and/or recommended reading:
1. "The Complete Guide To Certified Barber Coinage" by David & John Feigenbaum
"The PCGS Population Report, July 2003" by The Professional Coin Grading Service
If you are a metal detector kind of guy and live near Colorado have you ever considered looking into this more closely? Imagine finding several thousand 1907-D Barber quarters and dimes in Mint state!! What a huge find this would be. Kinda makes me want to look more closely into this story. Anyone else ever research this "lost" shipment? A very cool legend nonetheless. >>
That's just an old BS story. For one thing, there was a Denver & Rio Grande R.R. line running through the Gunnison Valley in 1907, besides several other rail lines going west through the Rockies. There was no need to ship a heavy shipment via stagecoach.
For another thing, there was never a road running along the southern lip of the Black Canyon of the Gunnison. The Canyon runs through the middle of a large granite dome (think of Stone Mountain, GA, with a deep crack running down the middle) that protrudes several hundred feet up above the surrounding flatland. There is a nice, easy road through gently rolling country just south of the dome.
TD
For some reason in 1907, the branch mint D and S coins tended to get "lost." I have no explanation for it other than people lost interest in branch mints until the Lincoln cent came out. The first year of the Denver mint in 1906 probably resulted in lots of hoarding first year of issues, esp in the smaller denominations. By 1907 it would appear that interest was lost.
roadrunner
<< <i>I would rather go after these Clark & Grubers. This supposedly took place about 45 minutes north of where I live.
JJ
Clark & Gruber gold. >>
Clark, Gruber & Co was long gone by 1872. Certainly a fun story though.
<< <i>PCGS has graded less than 65 1907-D Barber dimes over the years. Finding the 07-D dime in AU and Higher is quite a tough chore. Well there is a legend that a wagon-load went over a canyon in Colorado and is summarized below from Coin facts:
"There were over 34 million dimes produced this year, the vast majority came from the Philadelphia Mint."
"1907-D has a scarcity that defies easy explanation. Rumor has it that a large shipment of these dimes (and quarters) met disaster when a delivery wagon toppled in the Black Canyon near Gunnison Colorado. This date not only is an R5 in mint state, but also is fairly tough in all circulated grades."1
The finest Uncirculated example graded by PCGS is a single MS-67.
Sources and/or recommended reading:
1. "The Complete Guide To Certified Barber Coinage" by David & John Feigenbaum
"The PCGS Population Report, July 2003" by The Professional Coin Grading Service
If you are a metal detector kind of guy and live near Colorado have you ever considered looking into this more closely? Imagine finding several thousand 1907-D Barber quarters and dimes in Mint state!! What a huge find this would be. Kinda makes me want to look more closely into this story. Anyone else ever research this "lost" shipment? A very cool legend nonetheless. >>
Would our effervescent Modulator be so kind as to remove said booshwah from Coin Facts?
TD
<< <i>Cool story, but....
NPS site
"No other canyon in North America combines the narrow opening, sheer walls, and startling depths offered by the Black Canyon of the Gunnison."
You would definitely have a big job ahead of you on this one. >>
Truly an amazing natural wonder.
During a visit there back in the early 80's, I spoke with a park ranger who had some rock-climbing equipment with him, and asked him what he was doing. He said that all of the rangers had to qualify in rapelling down and back once a year in case they had to rescue a tourist.
He then said that one year some idiot in a helicopter had clipped a canyon wall and gone down. After they recovered the body, they had to cut the helicopter up and haul it up in pieces so that the wreckage did not spoil the view of the canyon. Don't know if he was pulling my leg or not.
TD
https://smallcopperguy.com
Fortunately, I was able to acquire an 1895-O dime PCGS MS64 in the same purchase as the 1907-D, and that coin has seen skyrocketing auction values in the past four years. The difference more than makes up for the loss on the 1907-D.
Looks like several in good to fine condition have sold recently on eBay for less than $5 each.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>>>"This date not only is an R5 in mint state, but also is fairly tough in all circulated grades."<<
Looks like several in good to fine condition have sold recently on eBay for less than $5 each. >>
It's a fairly easy coin in G-F(R2) but R4 in AU and MS. Probably tougher in XF-AU grades than MS but I am far from the expert. I just like the legendary story mostly
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
the coin is elusive in high AU it is readily available in 65+. Ten years ago the sheet gave gem price
at $4500. It is now at $3100 and falling.
Steve
Mike
W.C. Fields
There are a considerable number of 1907-D halves:
Denver Mint Barber Half Dollars of 1907, with comments on condition rankings
As for the '07 D half dollar, it was never considered scarce.
But, the dime and quarter are still difficult to obtain in high grades.
Over the years the last '07 D dime that I found in high grade was an AU-53 in Feb. 1998.
And the last 07 D quarter was an AU-58 in 1999.
They were and still are very difficult to find without problems.
BHNC #203
<< <i>Just remember that the story of the lost wagon is still utter hogwash! >>
The Capt. says its hogwash because he is trying to steal the treasure for his self
Just kidding!
However the Black Canyon near Gunnison Colorado looks like this ...
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
I used to own a 1907-D Quarter in PCGS 64 - never found an AU !!
I currently have two 07-D Dimes... Both PCGS : 45 & 58. Not that
hard to locate really. My old set had a 55 & another 58.
Halves - have an XF PCGS 45 now... had an AU 58 before. Love the
links to the other coins, especially the Pittman coin.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
First of all there is a road on the south rim that was used at that time. There is not access to the North rim (public).
I knew the story and did the exploration. There is only one, maybe two, places that the road came even close
to the rim. Not saying a keg couldn't roll but very unlikely that it would have made it over the rim.
My information was that there was one keg of dimes that went missing. Not dimes and halves.
There is no metal detecting in any Federal Park. No go on that, but dimes would be sitting on the rocks or
in the crevices and a metal detector would never work anyway. Much too steep.
There is no "dome" type structure. Land is relatively flat at the rims. The canyon is a gorge and damn deep.
It is not hikeable without a permit as I recall. It cannot even be floated as the river disappears beneath the
canyon bottom for a while and pops up a bit downriver. There are NO trails that lead to the bottom. One would
have to descend on ropes for the most part. I was in great shape when I did this trek back in 1989 and would
have been happy to be able to get into the canyon and search below those two possible sites. But, no dime
is worth the risk to a novice like me (on ropes).
The rock does not seem very stable, as compared to Yosemite, and it crumbles and fractures much too easily.
Not the ideal place for repelling or climbing.
Back to the road. The north side had no public access anyway. The narrow guage was at the bottom and served
those towns on the north side not those on the south side. The south side had fewer towns but they were large
enough to have banks and would have had to have coinage brought to them someway. Personally I did not check
into freight or stage routes to see how many times they ran or any such info. I just know that those folks up
beyond the south rim had to have service to them.
The road itself is partly paved within the park but continues beyond the park as a dirt road. The part where there
is any possibility of a keg going over the rim is dirt (was in '89). Parking and exploring at the two locations that
were most likely was fun but fruitless. The rim is still many feet away from the road, perhaps 20 or more. The keg
would have had to roll through grasses and bushes to make it over. Then, at those two points, the rim does not
drop straight off but is quite gentle for some distance as it descends down, and was explorable for several hundred
feet before it was too dangerous for me to continue down any further. My wife was with me and it was fun and
just the thrill of the hunt was worth every hour we spent there.
We, too, talked to a ranger and he said that he had heard that several dimes were located by fishermen who managed
to hike down to fish for the huge brown trout that inhabit the Gunnison's cold waters. However, he was fifteen or more
years younger than I and I had the feeling he was just telling me a bit of local lore.
Well worth the time, a day or so, if you ever get out that way.
bob
As you go north on Highway 347 you drive up onto the large dome. The campground where you first get near the edge is at 8,300-8,400 feet, but as you continue northwest along the park road the rim and the road eventually drop below 8,000 feet. The river level below the campground is at about 6,200 feet, though of course that also goes down as the river progresses through the park.
The railroad never ran through the Black Canyon of the Gunnison, and there were no towns down at the river level in the Black Canyon.
From Mine to Mint written by Roger W. Burdette. LINKY
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
The info you refer to on the modern topo is the Standard gauge RR not the narrow gauge.
The large dome is nowhere near the canyon. Yes it is on the road between Montrose and Gunnison and is one long
arse hill, but not at all near the canyon.
I spent several years there Capt. Lived in Grand Junction and was a road salesman and all this was my territory
that I traversed once every six weeks.
The towns I am referring to are above the canyon, Hotchkiss, Paonia, etc. They were not served by either RR and
were served by wagon and stage.
But, Capt, you are most probably right that it is BS. Wagons travel slow as do stages and the likelihood of an accident
at just the right point near the rim would be most improbable. Even if a wheel broke loose, I would not envision
such a problem that would send cargo off the edge. Not likely that a keg of coins would be on top of any cargo
such that it could tumble off. I'm sure that it would have been very securely packed.
bob
See this under the Royal Gorge Route.
linky
<< <i>I guess we are disagreeing as to what makes up the Black Canyon of the Gunnison. To me it is the rugged part that is now the National Park. However, there was indeed a train through the tamer upper canyon, from Sapinero down to Cimarron Creek, where it bailed out of the canyon to Cimarron.
See this under the Royal Gorge Route.
linky >>
Yes, to me the canyon is much larger than the National Park. A lot of it is now under Blue Mesa.
The train that was referred to had to be the narrow gauge back in '07 and it would have certainly been used. But,
then perhaps they would have just shipped the coins on the RR through Glenwood Canyon and then via road from
Grand Junction to Montrose. Then by wagon or stage to those remote locations that are accessed via the south
rim. Who knows?
I never found any reference to the lost dimes through any newspaper of the day or other local reference. So, let's
just agree it is likely total BS. But, fun to think about!
bob
<< <i>The 1907-D dime is the single most overrated coin in the Barber dime series. While it is true that
the coin is elusive in high AU it is readily available in 65+. Ten years ago the sheet gave gem price
at $4500. It is now at $3100 and falling. Steve >>
The price drop is more related to most choice and gem MS Barber coinage only grinding lower since 1990. It's also true that over time more specimens of all
dates have come to light. But finding a truly original gem 1907-d dime or quarter with clean cheek and fields is not easy....regardless of what the pops might say.
The 1907-D half is not easy either in upper gem condition despite a high mintage. Most look like trains ran over them. Standards for MS65-67 Barbers also loosened
considerably from 1990 to 2008....probably 2/3 to a full mint state point looser. That's another reason the pops have continued to increase in the upper grades.
MS64 better date Barbers (like the 07-d) have continued to drop in price because there's not enough set collectors who need them. At least 20 yrs ago their pops were quite
small. The only set collectors that really push the market are the ones building top REG sets. So unless you have a nice MS66 or better 07-d dime, the demand is not really
there anymore (pops large and possibly still growing....collector base stagnant or shrinking).