Brasher Doubloon Story in LA Times

ajia

Page A10 of today's edition.....

Coin at Center of Lawsuit

Connecticoin

I don't see how the alleged info makes that coin worth $10 million instead of $3 million.

droopyd

I think the plaintiff's reasoning is specious at best.

His academic research may be worth something, and it may increase the market value of the coin in question, but he's not entitled to any payment from the defendants.

MrEureka

Having heard both sides of the story from the individuals involved, I have a strong opinion regarding the merits of the case. That said, there's no way to come up with a meaningful opinion on this case if you're relying solely on the information in the LA Times article.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

It's an interesting theory, but IMO it doesn't raise the coin's value to $10 million.

The theory simply switches the coin from the first truly American gold coin to the first gold coin minted under US specifications.

MrEureka

BTW, I've compared the Garrett Punch-on-Breast Brasher with the Yale Punch-on-Wing. It is my opinion that they are from the same dies, and that the Punch-on-Breast is from an earlier die state.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>BTW, I've compared the Garrett Punch-on-Breast Brasher with the Yale Punch-on-Wing. It is my opinion that they are from the same dies, and that the Punch-on-Breast is from an earlier die state. >>



How much do YOU want for that piece of information?

MrEureka

How much do YOU want for that piece of information?

I'll leave that up to my attorney.

mrearlygold

<< <i>How much do YOU want for that piece of information?

I'll leave that up to my attorney. >>



After he consults with the CPA

wikyva

I believe the EB doubloon is uber-cool! How much is that worth? At least a million I am guessing.

speety

<< <i>I believe the EB doubloon is uber-cool! How much is that worth? At least a million I am guessing. >>



Punch on breast sold for $3M and punch on wing sold for $2.4M at the Heritage 2005 FUN sale.

ajia

Andy, playing the DA here & I'm no coin historian, so forgive me if the question seems silly...
BTW, I've compared the Garrett Punch-on-Breast Brasher with the Yale Punch-on-Wing. It is my opinion that they are from the same dies, and that the Punch-on-Breast is from an earlier die state.

Only 7 BD remain, and I am not sure how many were "minted", and I don't know what material the die would be made of...but how much wear would there be on the dies if only a handful were made (& gold, a soft metal)?
And how do you determine wear as opposed to a difference in strike?


".....At least a million I am guessing. ...."
You guess right!

MrEureka

I'm not sure if the resolution will be high enough but let's try. First, I'll post the images. Then, we'll try to prove the point.

This is (what I call) the obverse of the Punch-on-Breast.



And this is the Punch-on-Wing.




Edited to say that, unfortunately, I'm going to need higher resolution photos to do the job. Oh well. I'll leave the images, anyway.

OregonCityGold

This part is hilarious...

"According to the lawsuit, Swoger informed the owners that he had discovered information that would make their coin much more valuable and asked for a $500,000 fee. They countered with $250,000, the suit alleges, and then asked for a meeting at which Swoger would disclose the information."

He asked for $500K, they countered with $250K, and with that, the deal was struck. Ha!

edix2001

This story likely explains why someone wrote me today looking to purchase a copy of the Brasher Doubloon.

MrEureka

ttt, because we don't need two threads on this subject...

JSsson

<< <i>I don't see how the alleged info makes that coin worth $10 million instead of $3 million. >>

ajia

Andy,

Looking at the 2 images side-by-side, there are area's that I question would be "from the same dies, and that the Punch-on-Breast is from an earlier die state."

I need to apologize if my terminology is incorrect...but here goes...

The 'flower' at 4 o'clock has about the same strike, yet is vastly different at 12(:15).
The 'A' in COLUMBIA is thinner on the P-o-B coin.

Where these punched twice?
It could be the lighting, but the P-o-B looks to have doubling on the L-U-M-B of COLUMBIA, while there looks like doubling on V-A of NOVA on the B-o-W specimen.

firstmint

There was a thread on Brasher Doubloons last year on June 29, 2008.

I asked at the time if anyone had electronic images of all the known pieces. Apparently nobody has these.

I also pointed out the re-punched letters on the C/S breast example, along with the different diameter planchet.

Apparently, nobody has the weights of the known examples, as I asked about that as well.

Any connection to the US Mint after April 1792 would be extremely difficult to prove IMO.

MrEureka

Looking at the 2 images side-by-side, there are area's that I question would be "from the same dies, and that the Punch-on-Breast is from an earlier die state."

I need to apologize if my terminology is incorrect...but here goes...

The 'flower' at 4 o'clock has about the same strike, yet is vastly different at 12(:15).
The 'A' in COLUMBIA is thinner on the P-o-B coin.

Where these punched twice?
It could be the lighting, but the P-o-B looks to have doubling on the L-U-M-B of COLUMBIA, while there looks like doubling on V-A of NOVA on the B-o-W specimen.



First, there is some strike doubling, so not everything you see is in the die.

Second, my recollection is that the dies were substantially re-cut between the POB piece and the POW. Unfortunately, it has been a few years since I studied the coins closely in hand, so I can't get any more specific than that.